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#1 2012-01-09 00:59:38

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

My 3 cockerels

Here are the boys from Claire's eggs. I know that the only boy with yellow legs also has the crooked toes ...

Cockerel #1 (white band)

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12039.jpg  yellow legs/beak but crooked toes
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12104.jpg
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12106.jpg

Cockerel #2 (black band)

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12005.jpg
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12004.jpg
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12003.jpg
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12002.jpg

Cockerel #3 (green band)

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12062.jpg
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12064.jpg
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12096.jpg
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/EOsbandedSLFJan12101.jpg



XOX Monika

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2012-01-09 00:59:38

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#2 2012-01-09 01:12:39

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: My 3 cockerels

# 1 is great but the crooked toes :sad:  So I will go with #3

Last edited by Flat Rock Farm (2012-01-09 01:13:48)

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#3 2012-01-09 01:20:09

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: My 3 cockerels

Can you tell me what would help you decide to choose #3 over #2? BTW it literally has taken me hours to take and post these photos so thank you so much for taking the time to look and post your opinion so quickly! :thanks:

XOX Monika

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#4 2012-01-09 01:33:06

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: My 3 cockerels

I just think # 2 is washed out looking, his barring is not very crisp. :huh:  #1 markings are great and leg colour, but those darned crooked toes, I know as I had my fair share of them this year.  I kept one hen that has one toe inward, I will not use her for breeding, but she lays a nice egg.

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#5 2012-01-09 01:37:01

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: My 3 cockerels

Color wise...
Minus the crooked toes #1 is a nice looking boy. #2 is too light plus too much grey. #3 has the messing barring.

Size-wise how do the three compare Monika? #2 looks nice and big from the pics (every one of my light colored grey boys was big). #3 looks small. .???


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#6 2012-01-09 01:43:52

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: My 3 cockerels

I'd say 3 as well since he has more brown through the back and saddle, but I'd wait to see how they mature a bit before deciding.

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#7 2012-01-09 02:46:41

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: My 3 cockerels

What handsome fellas.  :thumbs:

Even the shape of #1 is nice.  I'd be so tempted to do just one hatch of his and see what happens.  :doI?:  I can't remember was it a difficult hatch at all?  There may be an nice yellow legged roo son that doesn't get bent toes.  If Father and chicks raising conditions are the same, bent toes should show up if they are going to shouldn't they?  Any bent toe roos would need processing or pet homes and the pullets layer status.

I like 2's build over 3's but 3's colour.  #2 has more overall brown than I thought, from the pics you posted a week or so ago.  I'd wait and see, but 2 still has promise with those nice strongly mottled pullets.  Just lots of white toes to work with.  #3 could totally fill out.  He is same build Curly was the first year, and he has done nothing but grow.  I just moved him tonight and I hadn't noticed how wide and heavy he had gotten.

We had quite a lots of white toes here in those Moms (2/3) and pale yellow Dad legs parents of your eggs, and we got lots of bright yellow legged offspring so at least one of the white legged Moms were most likely heterozygous if not both. 

One thing I saw with mine, is the paler grey roos/darker grey females are the ones with the bluest/whitest or willow legs.  And the greys seem more greedy and the roos are biggest and the pullets seem smaller than the red/gold pullets.

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#8 2012-01-09 03:17:41

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: My 3 cockerels

Hmmm #1 has the best body shape, feather color (I think??), wattle & comb color, he doesn't have that cleft in his wattle like #2 does and he is significantly wider than the other 2 as well. I did take a picture tonight to compare him to one of the others from the top, I will go see if I can find it. He has the nicest beak and leg color. I'm beginning to think he is superior to the other 2 except for the foot! Do crooked toes show up with the very next hatch, does anyone know or does it skip a generation? He is also the friendliest of the 3. If a chick hatches without a crooked foot is he still a carrier of it? Ohoh brain starting to hurt :duh:

XOX Monika

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#9 2012-01-09 04:03:07

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: My 3 cockerels

I really don't know Monika on the genetics of the bent toe.  It's certainly a risk to breed a roo with this, and I would plan on another breeding with one of the other guys too.  I guess we should look it up!  I have never had a bent toe here but quite a few of their offspring of our have so it doesn't have to be visible in the parents to show up.  Nearly everyone has has one but us! :huh:

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#10 2012-01-09 04:14:12

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: My 3 cockerels

There is something in Hutt on crooked toes...I just can't remember what off hand. It can definately be genetic but not sure about dominant or recessive etc. But it can be environmental too...

I would also keep #1 and try breeding him.

Claire none of mine from you or Susan had crooked toes. One slightly crooked toe on a Black Horse Ranch roo but that's it.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#11 2012-01-09 04:15:08

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: My 3 cockerels

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/cockerelsfromthetop013.jpg cockerel #2-left/cockerel #1-right
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/cockerelsfromthetop002.jpg cockerel #2-left/cockerel #3-right

XOX Monika

Ok, ladies you are awesome! I am off to see if I can find something in Hutt's book on crooked toes. I'll probably be back with a million more questions!

XOX Monika

Last edited by Island Girl (2012-01-09 04:21:49)

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#12 2012-01-09 04:39:15

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: My 3 cockerels

I know Paula and Stefan and I think Lisa had them too, Stefan has definitely had them multiple generations from us when we haven't had them each generation.  As far as I can tell, we raise them the same.  Shavings then grass etc.  Ours are on raised wire in their coops at night around the time they go outside 4-6 weeks, and it was earlier this year though the wire was on the ground with the broodies.  That's why I was asking about the hatch if there was any chance it was environmental.

You know that #2 peachy roo is beautiful! I personally love those muted intricate colours.   I know how wide he is ( have the same low set big round heavy looking grey dudes), and the other roo, #1 is very respectable in size IMO.  Let us know what you find.  There's not rush anyway, you may change your mined if #3 suddenly bolts up in size.

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#13 2012-01-09 05:06:00

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: My 3 cockerels

Thanks gubi, I will definitely band the chick in picture #2, it does have 1 twisted toe but is fine other than that. I do have 2 others that I am trying to staighten out their legs. 1 has only 1 turned leg but the second has both quite turned. I will hobble them for awhile to see if corrects itself. I wasn't sure if it was genetic or if it was incubation issues. The two with the spraddled legs are the 2 I helped out a bit as they were taking too long after the pips and I knew they were getting shrink wrapped. I don't know if their legs suffered because they were stuck or because I helped them or just because they already had issues. I will have to google spraddled legs .




Claire, the above is part of a post I made back in Sept regarding the hatch of these now pullets/cockerels. Seems like an eternity ago and yet it was only 4 months ago. 1 of those chicks with the spraddled legs I could not fix and therefore culled. The other is my crooked toed dude! I see that I had indeed helped him out of his shell and that the whole hatch was a little late. Hmmm, thank goodness for posts!! So it most definitely could have been my hatching method, all of my chicks are raised exactly the same, right down to using the same 3 progressively larger brooder boxes etc. So other than hatching issues or genetics I don't think it is environmental. You are right no hurry at this point, they have a lot of filling out to do! Thank you kindly for all your input.

Oh yah, that peachy roo is my avatar, he is my very first EO that ever hatched and my favorite!

XOX Monika

Last edited by Island Girl (2012-01-09 05:09:58)

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#14 2012-01-09 13:31:16

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: My 3 cockerels

All your cockerels are nice but none are perfect.  If I would have to choose today I would choose #2, if nothing else he will get his size to the next generation.  What kind of cockerels do you have coming up in the second hatch?


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#15 2012-01-10 00:54:22

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: My 3 cockerels

I often go back an re-read posts on things.  It's like an online diary!  :wise:

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#16 2012-01-10 03:11:20

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: My 3 cockerels

gubi wrote:

All your cockerels are nice but none are perfect.  If I would have to choose today I would choose #2, if nothing else he will get his size to the next generation.  What kind of cockerels do you have coming up in the second hatch?

Gubi, you inspired me to go and band all my chicks from Susan's eggs to see, I have 7 girls and 4 boys. Most of the chicks have yellowish legs. A couple of the boys do have some interesting combs developing. I'm not sure if they are 'normal' combs or not. I will be taking more pictures and posting them as well.

So here is a question I came up with. I believe Susan's birds are from Claire. My first batch (older pullets/cockerels) are from Claire. So are they considered F1 as in first generation. And then are my chicks from Susan now F2 as in second generation. Just curious, as someone was telling me this is a good way to keep track of the birds. To start breeding the lines away from each other, would it be better to breed either a good roo (F1) to good hens (F2) or vice versa good hens (F1) to good roo (F2) or scrap that all together and breed the F1s to each other and then the F2s to each other.

Should I have this in another thread? All opinions/explanations welcome!!

XOX Monika

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#17 2012-01-28 18:53:00

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: My 3 cockerels

Island Girl wrote:

So here is a question I came up with. I believe Susan's birds are from Claire. My first batch (older pullets/cockerels) are from Claire. So are they considered F1 as in first generation. And then are my chicks from Susan now F2 as in second generation. Just curious, as someone was telling me this is a good way to keep track of the birds. To start breeding the lines away from each other, would it be better to breed either a good roo (F1) to good hens (F2) or vice versa good hens (F1) to good roo (F2) or scrap that all together and breed the F1s to each other and then the F2s to each other.

Should I have this in another thread? All opinions/explanations welcome!!

XOX Monika

Hey Monika do you feel like you got an answer to this question? Ignoring the F1/ F2 stuff as i know it is another topic, I meant to respond and I don't think I ever did.

I would say it is best to avoid mating roosters and hens from the same source (i.e. same hatch). The EOs don't seem to be displaying too many problems with inbreeding but i do worry it isn't the best idea.  If you have some nice girls (even just one or two) from the eggs from Claire I would mate them to a rooster from Susan.  Perhaps you could do the opposite as well, use your best boy from Claire mated to you best girls from Susan. Even though they are related a generation or two back that will avoid the possibility of mating full brothers and sisters. Just my two cents...


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#18 2012-01-28 19:51:24

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: My 3 cockerels

Thanks pg, hehe, I think I may take some more pictures today and compare them to 3 weeks ago and see if there are any changes yet, that way I can avoid doing all the other things around here that I should be doing.

I like your idea of keeping the best roo from both Claire and Susan and the best hens and then breed them, Claire roo to Susan hens and vice versa.

XOX Monika

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#19 2012-01-28 22:04:53

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: My 3 cockerels

That's funny too, about the boy /girl ratio. I hatched 7 and there are 5 girls and 2 boys. You have 7 girls and 4 boys. Pops told me before I went to see the chicks we've hatched that it seemed like the vast majority were girls. I said no way, until I saw them- they must be 75 percent female!  Weird, but Woo Hoo!

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#20 2012-01-29 03:55:25

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: My 3 cockerels

Of the birds I have had from Claire (a couple of hatches worth), I have had only one with a crooked toe (female, Jim is her father). It was not apparent at hatch, and developed crooked after a few weeks. It got progressively more crooked (bending to the outside) and now almost touches the rest of the foot. She moves around just fine, but I won't breed her (darn - she's great in every other way!).


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#21 2012-01-29 15:02:20

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: My 3 cockerels

Wow they must be a miracle breed with 2/3 - 3/4 females and only a few roos :funny: :EO:  We must all be due for some roos this year!!

I totally don't understand with all the EOs we've had and raised that I've not seen a bent toe, we have to have some coming this year as the odds seem to be 5-20% if not more.  Is it just the otherwise perfect ones with yellow legs?  Or does it just seem that way! :banginghead:

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