Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

A place to find out more and share what you know about this awesome rare poultry breed! **NOTE: Those who wish to register as a new member on the forum are asked to email eochickenforum@gmail.com and an Administrator will gladly help you join the forum!

You are not logged in.

Adverts

Adverts

#26 2013-12-01 14:19:33

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

Keep the discussion going folks...I am on standby to make changes to the draft if we know what we want.

I have been doing something similar to what you've written out above Lisa as i've thought about this but the way you've written it out is excellent. I think we need to be careful comparing to some of the mediteranian class birds as some are not dual purpose: buttercups, andalusians, anconas, and spanish are all primarily egg layers. The judge at the show i just went to when i said i thought EOs were somewhat symilar in type to catalanas also commented that the catalanas were "more leghorny" although i'm not sure how familiar with them he was as they are pretty rare. As for the Sussex comparison that's an interesting one to include. They are dual purpose.

EO cockerels in a lot of the pictures I've seen stand fairly upright and have a fairly flat breast. The judge at the show when we were comparing them pointed that look out on several of mine and didn't like that about them. I don't think that's what we want but I do think we need to mentally picture the bird we do want in our heads and then try to describe it. I had two boys at the show, a cockerel Lucky and Little Guy who is almost two now that stand less upright and give the apperance of a fuller breast, i think that is more what they should be and those gents will be the ones i use for breeding. I have to get those pictures my friend took and post them...

I will be the first to admit I do better with color than type and I am still learning. I know some members on this forum have a good eye for type (gubi...MD where are you?)

That said my opinion on how to describe EOs referencing the Spanish translation as much as possible would be...
Comb - add to what we have...Surface smooth and without folds or wrinkles.
Beak - Medium length, strong and well curved (male). Medium length, strong and nicely curved (female). So I agree with Lisa but want to try to indicate the female's beak is slightly less curved.
Head - agree with Lisa, I fon't think EOs have particularly large heads either Moderately large, long, wide, and deep
Neck - Moderately long, nicely arched. Hackle - abundant flowing well over shoulders. "nicely arched" seems to describe EOs well in my opinion.
Back - Straight, broad its entire length, moderately long and sloping slightly downward to tail. I think keep it exactly the same as the Catalanas.
Wing - Large, well-folded and held close to the body without drooping. I agree with Lisa accept maybe "close" rather than tight? To me if we use tighly there is no reason to say they don't droop. Closely I somehow think of as not quite as pulled into the body as tightly.
Breast - Broad, deep and well-rounded. I agree with Lisa.

I don't think aside from the beak that the female is any different from the male. The Spanish translation does say "The chest is outgoing and wide but less than the rooster.". So maybe a slightly different description of the breast is warranted.

MD I saw your response when I was part way into this...let's arrange a time for that phone call.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

Offline

 

2013-12-01 14:19:33

AdBot
Advertisements

#27 2013-12-01 15:37:14

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

PG I'm still struggling with type as well!  No problem identifying in dairy cows but chickens is an other matter.  It seems the more I learn the more I realize how little I know!
I think you guys are doing a great job.  One thing that I question a bit is with the wings I don't know if you need both descriptions "held close to the body without drooping"  Can they be close to the body and still droop?


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

Offline

 

#28 2013-12-01 17:25:30

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

Gubi,

I can answer that one - yes! It was pointed out to me by the judge at the Colwyn, because my boys were doing it.... :oops:

When the wing is folded, it should sit pretty much horizontal to the ground. When it "droops", it's still close to the body, but "points" more to the ground (picture a clock hand at 7 or 8, rather than 9).


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

Offline

 

#29 2013-12-01 18:03:31

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

Lisa if you have the time read the Spanish translation poster earlier in this thread specifically for the gorria color description compared to what we have in the draft SOP. Also look at the color of New Hampshires and their description in the APA SOP. Are gorria the same color as New Hampshires or different? If different how? Id like your input on how to describe the gorria color in our SOP.

And I think MD is correct in saying this SOP needs to remain open in draft format for awhile. Probably until the breed club gets going and for sure long enough to try to get it as correct as we can during this go round. There is a big risk to changing it too many times as I know there are now copies out there of draft 1 that will remain as a hangover for a long time.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

Offline

 

#30 2013-12-02 00:52:38

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

Lisa wrote:

Gubi,

I can answer that one - yes! It was pointed out to me by the judge at the Colwyn, because my boys were doing it.... :oops:

When the wing is folded, it should sit pretty much horizontal to the ground. When it "droops", it's still close to the body, but "points" more to the ground (picture a clock hand at 7 or 8, rather than 9).

Got it!  I'm having a mental picture of a serama rooster but his would be at 6 o'clock.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

Offline

 

#31 2013-12-02 02:02:00

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

I suppose the proper wing position when referencing "the clock" would depend a lot on the stance of the bird, how upright it is. Gubi looking at your avatar see how upright that boy is and how flat his chest is? With that stance his wing is at 4 o'clock and not droopy at all. I think ideally though an EO is maybe a little less upright as his back slopes downward more than slightly.

I really want to get that mental picture of the perfect EO in my head and then capture it forever in a painting we can reference.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

Offline

 

#32 2013-12-09 04:00:45

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

http://www.efowl.com/Crele_Old_English_ … p/2362.htm

Still think Maraduna Males are golden crele


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

Offline

 

#33 2013-12-09 12:13:38

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

Search "golden crele" M&K and take a look at the images that come up. See how grey the crele males are on their chest and bloomers? EOs need to be red-gold with ivory fluff in those areas.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

Offline

 

#34 2013-12-09 13:02:47

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

Sorry M&K I have to agree with PG on this. The grey chests are something that we are trying hard to get rid of.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

Offline

 

#35 2013-12-09 18:30:38

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

but doesn't the golden crele refer to the hackles, not the gray?  The hackles are just like ours
what about   gold barred buff                                                               http://www.australianpoultryforum.com/v … p;start=10


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

Offline

 

#36 2013-12-09 18:53:10

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

In Europe they call them red cuckoo Colombian.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

Offline

 

#37 2013-12-09 18:57:50

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

What is the difference between cuckoo and fast feathered barred?

Offline

 

#38 2013-12-09 19:44:46

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

cuckoo means barred     columbian is black and white barring....


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

Offline

 

#39 2013-12-09 20:07:56

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

"The complex color pattern in the adults is known as Kennfarbig and in English would be called cuckoo red partridge. Even in its native land Bielefelders command a very high price today, and they are virtually unknown outside Germany."   but we have to look at the APA definitions.  Columbian is described on page 36 of the 2010 APA


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

Offline

 

#40 2013-12-10 00:47:30

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

cuckoo is not as crisp as barring, compare a Marans to a barred Rock.  In Europe, Columbian means the black necklace and tail.  HenDaisy calls them that she's the one that did the vidoes at the big show in Leipzig Germany.  Kennfarbig means "known color" basically it means they are sex link, the pullets are a lot darker at hatch then the cockerels.  I used to have a few bantam Bielefelder as a kid back in Switzerland.  With the Bielefelder the roosters do look a bit like ours but they do have that grey chest.  http://huehner24.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/bielefelderkennehuhn.jpg


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

Offline

 

#41 2013-12-10 00:47:56

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

You guys are doing great. :jumping:   I have read through this whole thread and think the red rather than the buff in the barring will be better, but I haven't looked at this for months and it is wise to leave in draft as we get more judge feedback.   I like the eye changes.  :thumbs:  Some of mine have light eyes (the Blondies mainly).   

I think I am closer to getting rid of the grey/black, though I hatched very few birds and some greylys too this year.  I'll start another thread and get some pics sorted out, but I bred my 4 Blondies (with no black after 5 years  and 1 year respectively), to Sunny Jim (now 2), a redder roo with barely any black.  Only 1/3 of the (six)  offspring look like they'll have any black after the first molt.  One of the roos is really red.  :love:

Offline

 

#42 2013-12-10 00:59:42

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

Hey Claire your back!!!!   :excited: :happycrowd"

Offline

 

#43 2013-12-10 01:30:07

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

:cozy: yep the biddies are all in, but we have some interior housing to build for broodies, sickies or injured individuals.  We just got about 8" of snow in the past 2 days, so winter is finally here. :snowman:  Still have some roos for freezer camp, but not doing that in a blizzard!  :shock:

Offline

 

#44 2013-12-10 01:40:16

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

Maggiesdad wrote:

What is the difference between cuckoo and fast feathered barred?

They mean the same thing to me MD. The really crisp barring is the result of the slow feathering gene, cuckoo is the same gene for baring but in combination with the fast feathering gene.

Glad to see you on here Claire. I think the old color description for marraduna of golden-red and light golden-red was better than buff so maybe I'll change it back for now?

I am going to go work on a draft of the SOP that attempts to include what we've discussed so far and post it on here. I really want to get a version out to Walt Leonard for some feedback before he forgets we even met...


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

Offline

 

#45 2013-12-10 02:41:13

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Revised Euskal oiloa (Basque) SOP, member input wanted!

Ok...here you go folks, an edited version that I think includes all the things we've discussed so far. Let me know if you see anything you disagree with, typos, omissions etc.

Read the description of the females legs and toes, I think we need to make that description more feminine.
Also I believe the color description for the gorria needs to be changed. How close is gorria to the New Hampshires in color, can we just use that color description and if not what's different?


BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) – North American DRAFT 2.1 SOP December 2013

Euskal oiloa first came into being as a natural breed evenly distributed across farms of the historical territories of Bizkaia, Araba and Gipuzkoa of the Basque Country (Euskal Herria) of Spain.  Recovery and preservation of this breed began in 1975 when Dr. Fernando Orozco and his team at the Department of Animal Genetics INIA recognized the devastating impact that the use of hybrid laying hens for commercial production of the regionally preferred brown shelled eggs was having on the native breed. Based on this work, Dr. Jose Antonio Mendizabal drafted the Spanish breed standard. The introduction of basque fowl into North America is relatively recent and the breed has attracted a following in Canada and the United States as a result of the combination of traits for hardiness, attractive color patterns, a friendly temperament, and good egg and meat producing properties.

ECONOMIC QUALITIES
A dual purpose medium weight fowl for production of both meat and eggs. Color of skin, yellow; color of egg shell varying from very light to a rich brown depending on the individual, strain and stage of production.

DISQUALIFICATIONS
White in the ear-lobes. Shanks other than yellow.

STANDARD WEIGHTS
Cock..........8 lbs                Hen...........5.5 lbs
Cockerel.....6.5 lbs            Pullet.........4.5 lbs

SHAPE-MALE
COMB:   Single, medium in size, straight and upright, firm and even on the head with six well-defined points. Blade slightly raised from the back of the neckline. Surface smooth and without folds or wrinkles.
BEAK:  Medium length, strong and well curved.
FACE:  Smooth.
EYES:  Large and oval.
WATTLES:  Long, thin and smooth, with a rounded lower edge.
EAR-LOBES:  Medium in size, lying close to the face, smooth and lanceolate.
HEAD:  Moderately large, long, wide and deep.
NECK:  Moderately long and nicely arched. Hackle abundant and flowing over the shoulders.
BACK:  Straight, broad the entire length, moderately long and sloping slightly downward to the tail.  Saddle feathers abundant and medium length.
TAIL:  Moderately large.  Carried at an angle of 45 degrees (45 °) above horizontal. Main tail feathers broad and overlapping. Sickles of medium length, well arched.
WINGS:  Large, well-folded and held close to the body without drooping.
BREAST:  Broad, deep and well rounded.
BODY AND FLUFF:  Body broad, deep, moderately long, carried slightly higher in front than rear. Fluff moderately full.
PLUMAGE:  Feathers moderately broad and long, fitted rather close to the body.
LEGS AND TOES:  Lower thighs strong and robust. Shanks rather long, thick, heavy. Toes four on each foot.

SHAPE-FEMALE
COMB:  Single, medium in size, straight and upright, firm and even on head with six well-defined points. Blade slightly raised from the back of the neckline. Surface smooth and without folds or wrinkles.
BEAK:  Medium length, strong, and nicely curved.
FACE:  Smooth.
EYES:  Large and oval.
WATTLES:  Medium length, thin and smooth, with a well rounded lower edge.
EAR-LOBES:  Rather small, lying close to the face, smooth and lanceolate.
HEAD:  Moderately large, long, wide and deep.
NECK:  Moderately long and nicely arched.
BACK:  Straight, broad the entire length, moderately long and sloping slightly downward to the tail.
TAIL:   Rather small.  Carried at an angle of 35 degrees (35 °) above horizontal.
WINGS:  Large, well-folded and held close to the body without drooping.
BREAST:  Broad, deep and well rounded.
BODY AND FLUFF:  Body broad, deep, moderately long, carried slightly higher in front than rear. Fluff moderately full.
PLUMAGE:  Feathers moderately broad and long, fitted rather close to the body.
LEGS AND TOES:  Lower thighs strong and robust. Shanks rather long, thick, heavy. Toes four on each foot.

MARRADUNA BASQUE

DISQUALIFICATIONS
Entirely white or black feathers in the sickle or main tail feathers. Entirely white feathers in the primary or secondary wing feathers.

COLOR-MALE

COMB, FACE, WATTLES AND EAR-LOBES:  Bright red.
BEAK:  Yellow.
EYES:  Reddish Bay.
HEAD:  Plumage, finely barred with white and golden-red.
NECK:  Hackle finely barred with white and light golden-red with a narrow black stripe, irregularly barred with white, extending down the middle of each feather. Front of neck same as breast.
BACK:  Barred dark golden-red. Saddle finely barred lustrous dark golden-red.
TAIL:  Main tail alternating bars of black and white. Sickles the same as the main tail with lustrous greenish black. Coverts black and white barring, the white barring gradually turning to dark golden-red approaching the saddle.
WINGS:  Front and bows barred white and medium chestnut red. Secondary coverts barred white and dark golden-red. Primaries barred white and black with upper edge golden-red. Primary coverts white and black barred edged with golden-red.
BREAST:  White and golden-red barred.
BODY AND FLUFF:  Body irregularly barred with white and golden-red similar to the breast. Stern irregularly and indistinctly barred with white and golden-red. Fluff ivory.
LEGS AND TOES:  Lower thighs indistinctly barred with white and golden-red. Shanks and toes yellow.
UNDERCOLOR OF ALL SECTIONS:  Ivory

COLOR-FEMALE
COMB, FACE, WATTLES AND EAR-LOBES:  Bright red.
BEAK:  Yellow.
EYES:  Reddish Bay.
HEAD:  Golden-red.
NECK:  Dark golden-red. Lower neck feathers with a black stripe, slightly and irregularly barred with white, extending down the middle of each feather. Front of neck similar to breast.
BACK:  Golden-red.
TAIL:  Main tail black edged with golden-red. Shaft golden-red.
WINGS:  Front and bows dark golden-red. Bar and secondaries golden-red. Primaries golden-red with lower web of first few primary feathers black transitioning to golden-red. Primary coverts black edged with golden-red. When the wing is folded in the natural position only the golden-red color shows.
BREAST:  Light golden-red.
BODY AND FLUFF:  Light golden-red with faint and indistinct white barring. Stern irregularly and indistinctly barred with white and light golden-red. Fluff ivory.
LEGS AND TOES:  Lower thighs light golden-red. Shanks and toes yellow.
UNDERCOLOR OF ALL SECTIONS:  Ivory


GORRIA BASQUE

DISQUALIFICATIONS
Entirely white feathers in the sickle or main tail feathers. Entirely white feathers in the primary or secondary wing feathers.

COLOR-MALE
COMB, FACE, WATTLES AND EAR-LOBES:  Bright red.
BEAK:  Reddish horn, shading to yellow at point.
EYES:   Reddish Bay.
HEAD:  Red.
NECK:  Hackle red shading at the base to a lighter red. A narrow black stripe extending down the middle of each feather. Front of neck same as breast.
BACK: Red in upper parts shading to lighter red in the lower saddle.
TAIL:  Main tail black. Sickles lustrous greenish black. Coverts black gradually turning to red approaching the saddle.
WINGS:  Front, bows, and coverts red. Primaries black then upper edge red. Primary coverts black edged with red.
BREAST:  Red.
BODY AND FLUFF:  Red similar to the breast. Fluff ivory.
LEGS AND TOES:  Lower thighs red. Shanks and toes yellow.
UNDERCOLOR OF ALL SECTIONS:  Ivory

COLOR-FEMALE
COMB, FACE, WATTLES AND EAR-LOBES:  Bright red.
BEAK:  Reddish horn, shading to yellow at point.
EYES:  Reddish Bay.
HEAD:  Red.
NECK:  Red. Lower neck feathers with a black stripe down the middle of each feather. Front of neck similar to breast.
BACK:  Red.
TAIL:  Main tail black edged with red. Shaft red.
WINGS:  Front, bar and secondaries and bows red. Primaries red with lower web of first few primary feathers black transitioning to red. Primary coverts black edged with red. When the wing is folded in the natural position only the red color shows.
BREAST:  Red.
BODY AND FLUFF:  Red. Fluff ivory.
LEGS AND TOES:  Lower thighs red. Shanks and toes yellow.
UNDERCOLOR OF ALL SECTIONS:  Ivory


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

Offline

 

Adverts

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB
Hosted by PunBB-Hosting