Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

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#1 2012-01-20 16:56:28

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Beltza? I want black EOs :)

SO, does anyone have thoughts or info on how to go about getting Beltza out of the stock we have? Been researching but I am not a geneticist.


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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2012-01-20 16:56:28

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#2 2012-01-20 18:13:39

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

I don't know enough to be a much help most likely YH but this is what I think...

The biggest difference will be at the extended black locus. I believe our marraduna birds are ewh/ewh, so a wheaton base. The beltza being black will be E/E for these alleles.

It is also possible that the beltza lacks the columbian restrictor. I do not know how Columbian works on black (if at all). So marraduna is Co/Co at this locus, I would (guess) beltza are co/co?

And of course you would need to get rid of the sex linked barring. I think some of my birds of the black horse ranch line lack barring. I suspect my rooster is hertrozygous for this (B/b) and I think one hen is also unbarred (b/-).

I would doubt the allele E is in our current north American EO gene pool, the others might be floating around. So you would need to pick a breed to cross with to introduce the E allele and then keep breeding offspring back to EOs selecting for black, unbarred, possible no columbian restrictor offspring. Plus all the type and egg productivity traits of course. 

I have no idea what would be a good choice of breeds to cross with. Something with a single comb, yellow shanks, lack of dermal melanin, brown eggs, that is black I suppose?

Could be off in left field about all of that...
And happy to explain as much as I know about any of the above...


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#3 2012-01-20 20:01:40

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

Thanks for the reply and the info. It kind of makes sense to me so you did a great job =D  It is still too early to tell but I think I have some that do not have the barring and some that I think do not have or at least they do not show the Colombian trait if that is what you are referring to. I will have to research a breed that is close to what would be needed to introduce the E allele back in. Thanks again.


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#4 2012-01-20 22:56:28

skeffling lavender farm
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From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

Would a black penedesenca work?  It's not perfect, but as far as I see it it could be a viable option.

Pros
The size is there and the black and I'll bet closely related due to close geographic source of them.  Wonder if they have the exact same black as the Beltza
Darker egg layer, lay big eggs and lots of them
Are vigorous and good weight for meat, fertility excellent like the EOs
Most of the "cons" below we think are already in the breed and we are weeding them out, may be better than a whole new set to get rid of

Cons
Downsides are they are a white skinned (we still get the odd yellow skin/soled one)
Clavell sidesprigs comb
Temperament is "surly" or indifferent we've had worse and I think the EO genes would win out there, and would be pretty easy to select for
White ear

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#5 2012-01-20 23:26:26

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

I was thinking the same thing Claire. Biggest cons would be the white ear lobe and the side sprigs on the comb in my opinion, both difficult to get rid of based on my limited experience. But still might be the best choice.

You don't need another project do you =D


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#6 2012-01-21 00:06:36

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

Good idea. My research turned up Jersey Giants or  Black Plymouth rocks. I worry the Jersey Giants will bring size issues. I very well could be wrong though. Not sure what bad things would be brought in with the Black Plymouth rocks other than they are rare from what I can tell. If you know of anything that comes tom mind as being an issue pleas let me know. I did find a guy about 30 mins away who breeds SQ Rocks of all varieties including the Black. It will be a hard task but a good project even if it takes a very long time to breed true. :EO:


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#7 2012-02-04 23:51:43

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

Went to pickup 2 Black Rock Chicks and came home with 4 Black Rocks and 2 Blue Rocks for free =D The other part to my Beltza project. So happy :thumbsup:


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#8 2012-02-05 00:04:07

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

YH good luck with the project :thumbs:  The Beltza are beautiful :love:

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#9 2012-02-05 01:28:16

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

:thumbsup:

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#10 2012-02-05 01:56:09

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

What about Austrolorps?

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#11 2012-02-05 03:30:22

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#12 2012-02-05 03:31:49

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

Congratulations on the new additions and being one step closer to Beltzas. :jumping:

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#13 2012-02-05 03:33:06

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

Susan wrote:

What about Austrolorps?

Haven't thought of those. I also have secondary motives with the Black and Blue Rocks. I also want a flock of them just to have. I think I have an addiction to chickens...:chairhide:


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#14 2012-02-05 03:42:00

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

Lovely !  Blue chickens are beautiful!

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#15 2013-04-09 01:58:56

riverbendfarm
Member
From: Baker Settlement, Nova Scotia
Registered: 2012-05-01
Posts: 214
Website

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

I am very interested in this as well. I may put an australorp rooster to my eo hens and see what comes. What I'd need tho would be a dark urn barred eo roo to cross back. Or an urn barred whit? Any thoughts? Any updates from YH on this project?


No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.
~Heraclitus

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#16 2013-04-09 02:59:26

mikencarol
Member
From: Oklahoma
Registered: 2012-08-21
Posts: 204

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

.. :thumbs:   have a yearling Roo from Greenfire Chicks that has ALOT of Black on him and one of my 8 month old pullets from Skyline has a good % of black on her....Later this summer I will cross the two....I think I can get there without outcrossing.....I've been told it takes 5 generations before you can call them "Pure" again...that's what I am going to try anyway..............I have a Crele Rhodebar Rooster also...but that's still an outcross... :huh:.I'm still up in the air on what to do.............Mike


I have to keep reminding myself... "It is The Standard of Perfection...NOT the Standard of Quantity that we are striving for..."

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#17 2013-04-09 19:12:43

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Beltza? I want black EOs :)

I really do find this site helpful with the project I am working on:
http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

First I click on get help from the colour list then choose the closest to EO then on the other side I choose the female... then press chicken calculator and then click punnet square.  From that point you can see the potential F1 offspring and then click on the closest to Belzta and punnet square F2 and so on!
From what I see your first generation will likely be black and white barred and then if you breed back to black about half the next gen will be solid black.  The trick will be choosing the stock with the most EO-like shape and size


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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