Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

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#1 2012-10-17 04:56:58

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

Oh yes another genetics question =D So one of my lovely new little Porcelain Booted Bantam cockerels placed best in variety and best in breed at the Cowichan Feather Fanciers Poultry show. It was very exciting to know that I have a lovely little boy to breed. He is from European parentage and is beautiful. So now  the question ... I have a wonderful lady that has bred her Porcelain d'Uccles and she has 5 of the little loves waiting for me :jumping: I tried to use a chicken calculator to see what results I would achieve by breeding the Porcelain Booted Bantam cockerel over the Porcelain d'Uccles hens, but couldn't quite make the calculator work for me. Would love your help.

XOX Monika

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2012-10-17 04:56:58

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#2 2012-10-17 05:28:45

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

I don't know the answer but would love photos of your boy.


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#3 2012-10-17 11:28:57

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

First :congrats: on your little guy winning!

So if I am understanding correctly he has no beard and you want to breed him with your d'uccles. So the only Major difference is the beard right?

Beard and muffs are a incompletely dominant trait but there are possibly some modifier genes involved as well.

If  your porceline d'uccles have a really nice full beard (ie two alleles) then the chicks will all have a beard but it will be a smaller beard and their wattles will be too large (i.e. one allele).
If your d'uccles have a weak beard you will get some chicks with no beard like your roo and some with a weak beard.

Personally I think it is not a bad cross to try. Your best chicks from this year you would likely need to cross back the either d'uccles or booted bantams and raise one or two more generations before you have much but still.

I think their may be (??) some difference in type between a booted bantam and a d'uccle as well but I am not certain exactly what. You might want to study the SOP in that regard or ask someone as if there are more major differences than just the beard that complicates things.

Pictures =D


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#4 2012-10-17 16:24:13

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

Thank you =D I will endeavor to get some pictures ASAP. As far as I Know the only difference between the two breeds is the clean face. I will do a comparison in the SOP and see if there is anything else I can pick out. I realize if I only had a lovely little Porcelain Booted female to breed it would make life easier but I can't find even 1 anywhere.

XOX Monika

Last edited by Island Girl (2012-10-17 16:24:41)

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#5 2012-10-17 17:46:47

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

Island Girl if WCPS ever gets back online again ask there.  Higgins rat breeds booted bantams and she says that the booted bantams and the d'uccles are two totally different breeds.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#6 2012-10-17 17:51:54

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

gubi wrote:

Island Girl if WCPS ever gets back online again ask there.  Higgins rat breeds booted bantams and she says that the booted bantams and the d'uccles are two totally different breeds.

I have heard that as well gubi.

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#7 2012-10-17 18:06:40

appway
Member
From: Moosomin,SK
Registered: 2012-03-19
Posts: 237

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

Yes Tara (higgens Rat should be able to answer If the site comes back up

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#8 2012-10-17 19:00:34

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

Internet search told me the following:

http://www.belgianduccle.org/page8.html

Although the weights of the TWO BREEDS are the same ONE MUST always keep in mind that these are TWO DIFFERENT BREEDS and there are Major differences in the two Breeds. The Booted Bantam has no Beard, has Large Wattles, is Taller and has a "U" shape between the head / neck and tail. Because there is d'Anver blood in the d'Uccle bantams the d'Uccle is a shorter bird, has a broader breast, Bull neck, very, very small wattles (or none) and a "V" shape between the Head/neck and Tail.

Booted Bantam: {This name is the same in many countries but in Holland it is called Dutch Booted Sabelpoot}
The breed was brought to Holland in the 17th century from China or Burma. Mr. E. C. Aldrich, Hyde Park, Massachusetts, was breeding the Booted Bantam as early as 1836. The breed was admitted to the American Poultry Associations Standard of Perfection in 1879 in the White Variety only. The standard weight of the bird is Cock 1 lb. 10 oz. / 740 grams; Cockerel and Hen, 1 lb. 6 oz./ 625 grams; Pullet 1 lb. 4 oz./570 grams. These are the weights that should be maintain for healthy birds and show weight.
The American Poultry Association in the Standard of Perfection list only the following Varieties:
1879 White 1914 Mille Fleur 1965 Porcelain 1996 Black 1996 Self Blue
Belgian d'Uccle Bantam: { Belgian Bearded d'Uccle in the United States}
The Belgian d’Uccle Bantam was bred for the first time in the small municipality of Uccle at the southeast border of Brussels, Belgium by Michel Van Gelder, sometime between 1890 and 1900. The ‘d’ in front of d’Uccle means from or of (Uccle). If you happen to be in Belgium, the 'd' is dropped, and they are simply referred to as 'Uccles'. Most authors believe that the Belgian d’Uccle Bantam is a cross between the Dutch Booted Sabelpoot Bantam and the Antwerp Bearded Bantam, but this fact is not known for sure. Mr. Van Gelder traveled to many English and German poultry shows and the chance Dutch Booted Sabelpoot Bantam actually originated from somewhere in Asia and remains that some breeding material could have originated from either country. The is believed to contain some Japanese Bantam blood. So the d'Uccle has both Asian and Belgian roots.
The first varieties of Belgian d’Uccles were the Mille Fleur, Porcelain, and White, but the Mille Fleur was the first variety entered into the American Poultry Association's Standards of Perfection in 1914. This was thirty-five years after the entrance of the Booted Bantam (a distinctly different breed from the Belgian d'Uccle). I mention this because sometimes the Booted Bantam and the Belgian d'Uccle are confused with one another.
The standard weight of the bird is Cock 1 lb. 10 oz. / 740 grams;
Cockerel and Hen, 1 lb. 6 oz./ 625 grams; Pullet 1 lb. 4 oz./570 grams. These are the weights that should be maintain for healthy birds and show weight.


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#9 2012-10-17 22:00:43

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

Flat Rock Farm wrote:

gubi wrote:

Island Girl if WCPS ever gets back online again ask there.  Higgins rat breeds booted bantams and she says that the booted bantams and the d'uccles are two totally different breeds.

I have heard that as well gubi.

Thanks guys, yes I have read that as well about them being two completely different breeds. The SOP has them listed as two seperate breeds but I was hoping that as they are so similar that they may be a good choice to breed to each other. This is all good info, I will get on WCPS and see if Tara can help, maybe she will keep it short and simple :funny:

XOX Monika

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#10 2012-10-18 16:43:06

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

Monika,

Helen and I had the same question (what is the difference between the booted and d'uccles) - we found our most useful inforamation in the Bantam Standard. By comparing the descriptions of the two breeds, it was much clearer. In particular, the type on the two breeds is different.


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#11 2012-10-18 22:18:10

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

Lisa, are you referring to the American SOP or a different book?

XOX Monika

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#12 2012-10-19 00:30:15

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

Monika,

Different book. =D  "Bantam Standard" from the American Bantam Association. I think I have the latest copy - 2006 (red cover).


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#13 2012-10-19 01:55:23

dahlisgrams
Member
From: NY
Registered: 2012-08-06
Posts: 267

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

:congrats: What a wonderful win, Monika!!

I'd love to see photos too. This is very interesting, the differences. I have only one d'uccle and she's a run of the mill mille fleur but she's sweet and funny and makes me laugh.

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#14 2012-10-19 03:40:12

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

Honestly, we should just call this the EO and d'uccle forum...it almost applies to everyone!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#15 2012-10-19 13:01:18

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

poplar girl wrote:

Honestly, we should just call this the EO and d'uccle forum...it almost applies to everyone!

How true :funny:

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#16 2012-10-19 13:31:21

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Porcelain Booted Bantam roo over Porcelain d'Uccle hens

:excited: :congrats: Monika!

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