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#1 2012-04-14 01:56:20

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Topic 4: Chick Down Color

The chick down color and pattern can reveal a lot about the genetics of an individual. Some of what can be seen in the chick down won't be easy to see in the adult.

One of the most obvious things the chick down reveals is the e-series alleles (from Genetics of Chicken Colours: The Basics):

E, Extended Black - black on the back and marbled yellow on the belly. Yellow may run from the chin to the belly or only be a yellow dot under the chin. This is the most dominant of the e-series allele.  E often cause dark leg color. The beltza EO variety has this allele.

ER, Birchen - adult birds can look quite similar to E/E. Birchen chicks often have a brownish forehead and/or white spot on the chin. 

eWh, Wheaten - chicks are cream colored or white. Sometimes there is some stippling on the head or diluted dorsal stripes are prsents, if there is Columbian in it. The marraduna, gorria, naked neck and zilarra EO have this e-allele.

e+, wild type - genetically called ducking because of the wing triangle of the roosters. Chicks are light brown and have a dark brown stripe over the middle of the back running to the top of the head. On both sides of the dark dorsal stripe there are two smaller dark brown stripes and between them there are yellowish or whitish stripes. Chicks have the black eye stripe.

eb, Brown - chick down is dark brown on the back and on the head with some vague stripes on the back of the head and a lighter forehead. Depending on the allels added to eb chick down can vary from black with a yellow belly when black enhances are present to alight cinnamon color with foggy stripes when Columbian is present.

The e-series base for each variety of EO were taken from a Table on pg 41 of Orozco's book.

If anyone has picture to show the different chick down colors of each e-allele that would be great!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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2012-04-14 01:56:20

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#2 2012-04-14 12:08:28

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

Focusing a bit specifically on eWh, I have found the following:

eWh with Co are changed to a buff colour if sex-linked gold is present, but remain cream if sex-linked silver

http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html
Remember from topic 3 that marraduna EOs should be Co/Co (columbian) and have a gold base for the s-allele (s/s or s/- since this is a sex linked trait)


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#3 2012-04-14 12:25:29

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

Note that the Vasca is another name for the EO:

In studies of the genetics of plumage color of Vasca, a Spanish breed of chickens with gold columbian restricted pattern, results of crosses between recessive tester wheaten (ey/ey co+ / co+) with Vasca and F1 from a Castellana × Vasca cross showed that a wheaten allele is the most frequent at the E-locus in Vasca chickens. Crosses between Vasca and light brown Leghorns (e+ / e+ co+ / co+) or brown (eb/eb co+/co+)tester lines showed that the wheaten allele was the dominant one (ewh). These crosses, and the analysis of chick down in pure Vasca populations, suggested that the wild-type (e+) and brown (eb) alleles also are present at low frequencies. Since Vasca is a new breed, created in 1975, this heterogeneity would be expected. The dominant wheaten allele seems to interact with the dominant columbian restriction gene Co, resuiting in the characteristic plumage of the breed. The columbian-type dark brown gene (Db) does not appear to be present in this breed.

Abstract from Genetics of the columbian plumage pattern in the Vasca chicken breed
http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/conten … 3.abstract

Thus we should be watching for chicks that pop up with the eb or e+ down as they could be hiding in the gene pool.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#4 2012-04-14 13:11:27

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

On BYC there is a nice thread, Chick Down Color Masterclass.

A few of the posts on the first page are really helpful. Specific to eWh, Co and gold is the following:
http://forum.backyardpoultry.com/viewto … ;t=7979926

======================================
The following are Wheaten:

4. Wheaten, Sex-linked Gold (no columbian gene, ie co+/co+)
eWh s+
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/03d07e74.jpg

5. Wheaten with Columbian gene, Sex-linked Gold
eWh Co s+
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/5e0f2d35.jpg
------------------

Photo 4- Wheaten sex-linked gold co+/co+ (without Columbian) are usually cream. The Db gene doesn't change eWh chick down colour. Therefore, this chick may or may not have Db.

Photo 5- Wheaten sex-linked gold with Co gene, changes the cream chick down shade to buff.

Note, Wheaten sex-linked Silver Co chicks remain cream/white. Therefore, to use wheaten chicks in sex-linked silver/gold crosses for day-old ID of gender, it's usually necessary to have Co - columbian in the birds, as it is very hard to ID between gold & silver in wheaten chicks without Co.

The photos that go with this are VERY helpful and I hope I have not broken as copywrite laws by posting them (I could not find anything on BYC accept that I needed to cite the source).

Assuming all your chicks have the columbian allele (I have not seen this lacking in any as of yet?) you should be able to select gold based individuals (desirable in marraduna and gorria) over silver based (zilarra) as chicks.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#5 2012-04-14 13:11:44

gubi
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From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

All of mine are now hatching out yellow.  I have a couple with a little dark line on their head.  The chick from the first hatch that looked more like a pale welsummer looks more and more like a Welsummer pullet.  Residual sperm from when they were in the general population.  If I look really close on my chicks they are not uniform yellow/orange but appear to have some chipmunk stripes in a different shade of yellow on at least some of them.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#6 2012-04-14 13:26:14

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

The dark spot/line on the head is the Columbian allele gubi.

This article has some interesting findings but I am not sure the information is still accurate with more recent research:
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/51c899d9.jpg
J Hered (1969) 60 (6): 353-356. http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/conten … 53.extract


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#7 2012-04-14 22:04:23

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

Wasn't sure where to put these pictures, hope this is ok. I thought the Gorria chicks would be darker but I truly can't tell them apart. The ones that look darker in these pictures are still a little damp. I will wait til they are completely dry and post some more pictures.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/gorriasvsmarraduna023.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/gorriasvsmarraduna029.jpg

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd420/801Islandgirl/gorriasvsmarraduna033.jpg

XOX Monika

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#8 2012-04-14 22:18:36

skeffling lavender farm
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From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

Cute! :love: :congrats:

When we got out 3 Maradunna and 3 Gorria way back, all 6 looked they all looked like big yellow fluffy chicks, soem had more of a concentration of red on their heads, maybe 2 of them.  We didn't know they were different and we were very new, so we me may have missed something key.  When the body feathers came in on the chest and shoulders, at like 2 weeks, they were chestnut gingery red.  I can't remember what the wing feathers were like. 

I'll go through my pics and look up all the Gorrias and put them in one thread when I get a chance.  First pics were around 4 weeks maybe.  Nothing of fuzzybutts

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#9 2012-04-15 02:28:28

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

Thanks for moving the pics IG, I know it was a pain to do!! It will be great to have these pics all in one place for later reference though :)

I actually believe there is no way to tell gorria from marraduna by the chick down. Really sex linked barring is the only difference between the two varieities as far as I know and the barring would not change the chick down. The true feathers will tell the tail.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#10 2012-04-16 00:55:47

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

tail or tale?

:)

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#11 2012-04-16 01:51:47

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

My guess would be tail.... And wing feathers... And body colour... :)

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#12 2012-04-16 01:56:39

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

Ha ha, whichever tail...spelling was never my best subject in school!! At least this way I know everyone need to read all the info just to catch my spelling and grammatical errors!!  Yes that is me admitting that any pun was unintentional :oops:


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#13 2012-04-27 14:40:19

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 4: Chick Down Color

I don't have any chicks from my birds yet so these will have to do for now. These chicks are BHR most likely crossed with a Sparkle/Sequine rooster from Susan. They are 5 days old in the picture.

Group Shot (back yellow, purple, green; middle orange, front blue)
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/3cd910b7.jpg

Blue, mostly yellow with hints of red in the chick fluff.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/9db31641.jpg

Green, similar to blue but with more grey in the centre of the back chick fluff.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/aae43b36.jpg

Orange, similar to blue and green maybe slightly more red to the chick fluff.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/2fa8cb3e.jpg

Yellow, a black head spot and red/brown chick fluff (can see the colors of this chick almost better in the group pic)
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/2fa7034c.jpg

Purple, a very distinct black head spot and dark red/brown chick fluff.
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/c2271943.jpg


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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