Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

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#1 2012-02-26 02:30:54

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Although a bit early in the sequence, let's summarize what we know and speculate about the genetic makeup of the EOs. This does vary by variety of course. Susan would like to have this information for her meeting with Dr. Crawford on March 3rd.

This topic will likely remain a work in progress for awhile as we continue to learn!

So where to start?

For the marraduna this is what I understand of the genetic makeup:
Yellow skin/shanks....
Wheaton base for the e-series alleles....
Columbian restriction....
Sex linked barring....
Single comb....
Inhibitor of melanin disposition in the leg...
Feathered neck...
Colored (vs. autosomal white)...
Four toes....

Who knows what the allele designations for a homozygous individual for these traits would be? How about the chromosome they are located on?  It would be great if members can demonstrate their knowledge for these traits! I will give you a hint...Chestnutridge references most of this information in the article on EOs she wrote.

What other alleles do we know?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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2012-02-26 02:30:54

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#2 2012-02-26 20:29:10

Susan
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From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

I'll check her article out again, hopefully tonight! I thought though, the barring gene for Eos was unique to them. Am I wrong?

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#3 2012-02-26 21:13:03

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Susan the allele for EO barring is not unique. It is the same gene as many other barred breeds although there is also an autosomal allele for barring.


I'll answer one of the above as an example:

Yellow skin and shank color. In EOs w is the allele for yellow skin. W is the allele for white skin and is dominant. All varieties of EO should have yellow skin color so an individual would be w/w for this trait. This is an autosomal gene of linkage group 3. I can't find the specific chromosome it is located on.

When we get through these I would like to spend a bit of time reasearching and talking and trying to figure out the genetic components we are not so sure about so come one folks...pick one or two and post a response!!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#4 2012-02-26 21:53:02

ipf
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From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Linkage group is just another name for chromosome, sort of. But chook chromosomes have been reclassified, so there are old and new numbers, and it still all seems to be in a state of flux, even post-Crawford.

Best info I can find so far is theat the W gene is on microchromosome 24.

And yes, my understanding is that the EO barring gene is the same one as for barred rocks and most other (but maybe not all) barred breeds.

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#5 2012-02-26 23:07:49

Susan
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From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
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Posts: 2540

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Ok then, so if one wants to get a clear picture of the barring we desire, we could then look at the barred rocks in the SOP and the same pattern would apply to our guys and girls. Where did I see the complete genome? Its been mapped and I'm sure I saw it somewhere.

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#6 2012-02-26 23:20:16

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
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Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Look at this! I found lots of links to the Gallus gallus (i.e. chicken) genome map but could not make any sense of it. This website I can make sense of!
Here is the results if you search down to yellow skin color: http://omia.angis.org.au/OMIA001449/9031/
ipf you were correct, chromosome 24 is where yellow skin color is located.

And here is a link to allow the same for 189 different chicken genes: http://omia.angis.org.au/results?search … es_id=9031


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#7 2012-02-26 23:24:27

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Susan wrote:

Ok then, so if one wants to get a clear picture of the barring we desire, we could then look at the barred rocks in the SOP and the same pattern would apply to our guys and girls. Where did I see the complete genome? Its been mapped and I'm sure I saw it somewhere.

Susan even though the allele for barring is the same as that for a barred rock the barring will not look the same in EOs. Barred rocks have the slow feathering allele as well which makes the barring MUCH clearer. The barring without the slow feathering gene that EOs have is called cuckoo barring.

So I guess we can add Not slow feathering to our list of marraduna EO defining traits.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#8 2012-02-26 23:49:20

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Here is a link to ChestnutRidge's article: http://scratchcradle.wordpress.com/reso … sque-hens/
And a link to some information on poultry alleles: http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page3.html


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#9 2012-02-26 23:51:53

Susan
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From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
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Posts: 2540

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Sounds good PG. I'll try to ask the questions, if you continue to answer! :) :). So what breeds in the SOP show the cuckoo, slow feathering barring - and what the heck is slow feathering??

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#10 2012-02-27 00:06:50

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
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Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Well dominiques are an APA recognized breed with cuckoo barring. Virtually all barred chickens except the barred rock have cuckoo barring I believe. Cuckoo barring is just another name for "messing" barring which is what the marraduna EOs have.

As for the slow feathering allele it is unfortunately not a simple gene. There are four different alleles for this gene.
K^n, K^s, K, k
The order of dominance is as above with the most dominant listed first.
k is sometimes called the rapid feathering allele.
K is late feathering.
K^s is slow feathering. I believe this is what barred rocks have.
K^n is very slow feathering.

I am not certain if the EOs are k or K.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#11 2012-02-27 00:39:30

Susan
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From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
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Posts: 2540

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Wow! Interesting! No wonder we have trouble getting the right  look. This is why as much as believe in building the "barn" first is very important, one can not ignore the "paint " even from the get go. I need to show this to Dr. Crawford and ask him if there is a way(phenotypically) to tell

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#12 2012-02-27 02:11:25

ipf
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From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

My understanding is that barred rocks are homozygous for the K allele, not the Ks allele. . . ?

Has anyone tried to feather sex their EO chicks?If it's not possible, then they're k/k.

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#13 2012-02-27 03:06:50

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
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Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Looks like you are correct ipf, barred rocks are K. So that would make EOs k. This is a sex linked trait on the Z chromosome.

And no, EOs don't seem to be feather sexable either so there you go...EOs are k/k.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#14 2012-02-28 02:21:08

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
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Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Okay another one...columbian

Columbian restriction. Confines black the the tail and hackles of both sexes. Co is incompletely dominant. Autosomal. Marraduna EOs are Co/Co. Again, not sure of the chromosome it it on.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#15 2012-02-28 13:05:55

Susan
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From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
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Posts: 2540

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Ok, so we want Id/Id for inhibiting Melanin on the legs right? So what designation would give white, willow, blue, green etc.
Would white be w/W or W/W
Woukld willow be w/id
Blue W/id

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#16 2012-02-28 15:20:37

ipf
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From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Yes, both W/w and W/W give white, but of course you want W/W.
Green (according to my source) would be w/w, id+/id+, e+/e+
White:  W/W, Id/Id, e+/e+
Blue: W/W, id+/id+, e+/e+
Is willow different from green?

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#17 2012-02-28 15:37:33

Susan
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From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
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Posts: 2540

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Actually I think we would want W/w, not W/W so there was hope to get back to w/w right?if we had a white legged bird with otherwise good qualities I would still use them with a w/w bird

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#18 2012-02-28 15:46:17

ipf
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From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

oops, sorry, I was thinking you wanted white legs. . . so essentially you want w/w. It's pretty easy to get rid of a ominant gene at any stage of breeding, so keeping a white-legged bird isn't going to give you any long term problems.

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#19 2012-02-28 17:28:26

Maggiesdad
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From: Louisa County, Virginia
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Posts: 1980

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Shank colour              Dermis             Epidermis
White                    none (Id/Id)     white (W+/W+)
Yellow                   none (Id/Id)     yellow (w/w)
Green (Willow)       black (id+/id+)     yellow (w/w)
Slate/Blue           black (id+/id+)     white (W+/W+)
Black                   black (id+/id+)     white (W+/W+)

Taken from  http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations2.html

who acknowledged this  -   * I have modified the above table from Jeffrey, F. (1977) "Bantam Breeding & Genetics" book.

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#20 2012-02-28 19:11:04

gubi
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From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
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Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

If I remember correctly Id is sex linked too.  A hen can have yellow legs and still produce willow legged offspring but a rooster that has yellow legs will always produce yellow legs even if he's mated to a willow legged hen. 
Did I get it right this time ipf?


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#21 2012-02-28 21:06:45

ipf
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From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Yes, Id is sex-linked.
Gubi, if your roo was Id/id, then not all his offspring would necessarily have yellow legs.
A hen with yellow legs would have all yellow-legged sons (as long as they got a w from dad as well) but the girls might not be yellow-legged, depending on dad.
I think.

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#22 2012-02-29 01:51:28

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Marraduna EOs are a wheaton base for the E-series allele ipf, which acts similar to e+ in terms of dermal melanin I believe. So ewh/ewh. This is an autosomal trait located on chromosome 11. The ewh results in the yellow chick down and also the ivory/white under fluff.

In terms of shank color lack, of dermal melanin (Id/Id) is sex linked and on the Z chromosome as someone said. There are only 13.7 map units between the locus for the gene for dermal melenan and the barred gene meaning these are linked. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3165529

The allele for barring is also a modifier for expression of dermal melanin. That is why a barred rooster will "never" have green or blue legs but the hen will. I think though if the rooster is hertrozygous for barring they can have green of blue legs? I have had EO roosters with green (willow) legs and that was my theory, could be incorrect?

Not sure if we talked about sex linked barring of the marraduna EO yet? The allele for barring (B) is dominant. A rmarraduna rooster should be B/B while a female should be B/-. I understand that homozygous roosters (B/B) will have lighter barring than heterozygous males (B/b) but I am not certain how easy this difference is to see in the EO. Located on the Z chromosome.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#23 2012-02-29 01:58:53

ipf
Member
From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

poplar girl wrote:

I think though if the rooster is hertrozygous for barring they can have green of blue legs? I have had EO roosters with green (willow) legs and that was my theory, could be incorrect?

Not sure if we talked about sex linked barring of the marraduna EO yet? The allele for barring (B) is dominant. A rmarraduna rooster should be B/B while a female should be B/-. I understand that homozygous roosters (B/B) will have lighter barring than heterozygous males (B/b) but I am not certain how easy this difference is to see in the EO. Located on the Z chromosome.

Quite right, a B/b (heterozygous) roo could have green legs, I believe.
There is something about sex-linkage and barring on another thread, alnog with some discussion of the B locus. I too wonder how easy the difference between B/B and B/b would be to see in the presence of the (which is it? the one that makes the barring messy) gene; the difference is very clear in Barred Rocks (with the same B/B, B/- genotypes)

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#24 2012-02-29 02:13:43

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Well the rapid feathering allele, k, makes the messy barring as we have learned! And I think on the reddish gold background of the EO (vs black) it is also harder to see if not impossible.

So far of the two lines of marraduna EOs we all started from all birds from SLF are barred (is the correct term that the allele for barring is fixed in that population?) but some of the BHR birds lack barring. I suspect the rooster I kept from the BHR line might be heterozygous as he is very dark gold...will find out in a few month hopefully!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#25 2012-02-29 02:37:09

Susan
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From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Topic 3: Euskal oiloa genetics

Then how do Claire's "Blondies" fit in PG?  They don't seem to be barred?

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