Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

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#1 2012-02-12 15:16:50

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

I have been reading the threads on BYC that Maggiesdad provided a link to. Allen W. Miller, a 97 year old poultry-man and geneticist has really got me thinking. I encourage everyone to go read some of the threads he has posted on: http://www.backyardchickens.com/u/116962/allenwmiller

One of the thoughts that reading Dr. Miller's posts has provoked is the stark realization I don't know how to select for type. I know some of how to select for type but not nearly enough to build a flock of EOs that are to a Standard of Perfection. Not enough to prevent my flock from developing problems that go unnoticed for longer than they should while I learn what I'm doing.

So this realization has lead me to asking myself how do i gain access to poultry-men and women with that knowledge and how do i gain that knowledge myself? I don't think all the reading of books or on the internet or looking at pictures in the world will get me there fast enough. I need to stand beside an expert with birds in our hands and learn that way, hands-on.

I am just starting to show my d'uccles. I know that I will learn a lot by doing so. But I think that large fowl are different than bantams and each breed is different from the next. Thus I will probably miss important things in my EOs over the next while if I am the only one handling and selecting them.

So then I came to the conclusion I need to find an experienced, knowledgable breeder that is willing to mentor me. This would require my bringing birds to them or them coming to me at least once a year to aid at selection time. Preferable more often than that.

How do i gain that access? The easiest way might be poultry shows. But the EO is not a recognized breed, so how to get started?

I will be at a poultry show next weekend. There should be at least a couple of APA judges there. I am going to try to find an opportunity to ask the judges at the show and see if there would be any opportunity to show EOs or get assistance in some way. I will bring a copy of the SOP we put together. I will try to print a few pictures as well.

So what does everyone think? Perhaps there is another way to do justice to breeding EOs?
Maybe some folks have enough experience and knowledge already to move forward on their own but I fear I don't. Or maybe some of you have access to a mentor?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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2012-02-12 15:16:50

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#2 2012-02-12 17:20:34

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

:applause: :applause:  Attagirl, PG! Way to get the ball rolling! :cheer: :applause: :applause:

Eoalak has a function coming the 2nd weekend in March. lys says Miguel Angel is the president of Eoalak. Who better than one who loves and breeds them, and is actively spending a large portion of his time promoting the EO's heritage?

Mebbe a group effort to pay his way to North America for a weeklong visit? :huh: If we can't get stock out of Spain (besides, who currently knows what stock is good stock?), the how about the criador himself? Just sayin...

ps -lys, are you sebastopol on BYC?

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#3 2012-02-12 19:53:37

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

Great question PG, will check out those threads, things is the real old poultry guys aren't on the internet for the most part, that's part of the gap.

Good idea MD, yes and Lys is Sebastopol!

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#4 2012-02-20 01:29:32

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

So while I attending the poultry show this weekend i did have a chance to speak briefly with the APA judge, Ramona Tremblay (I hope my spelling is correct), about how to move forward with Euskal oiloa.

She felt that EOs could be entered in a show under the Medeteranian Class, Any Other Variety.

As any judge she indicated to select for type first. To ensure that there are no major defects like wry tail or roach back etc. Then to look for width across the back and into the tail. To ensure legs were straight and the correct distance apart. That birds were meeting the size requirements of the SOP.

She said the crooked toes could just be the result of incubation problems or, if not that,then nutritional deficiencies. That some breeds need more of certain nutrients than others. A breeder from BC eliminated problems with crooked toes just by changing the feed he gives his breeding birds.

She suggested if we have problems with small numbers of the breed and inbreeding problems to occasionally cross with a pendesenca, preferably of a similar color. She said with a landrace like the EOs they may not tolerate inbreeding very well.

Anyway, I certainly don't think the doors are closed to obtaining assistance and support from the APA with the EOs should we wish to access it.

I am considering taking a few to a show this this fall depending on how things go this year.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#5 2012-02-20 02:37:56

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

Do it PG!! That would be awesome!!

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#6 2012-02-20 02:44:08

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

Wow, that is great info PG thanks for asking and telling us about it.  Common sense and very interesting about the toes.  It may explain why we haven't had bent toes here if the feed is different, but if they come from our eggs.  I have always said I thought maybe the genetics made them, "prone" to it, but conditions had to be right.

At least we know the breed category now too.  Showing them definitely is part of the process.

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#7 2012-08-24 22:59:05

choctawgal
Member
From: Washington, USA
Registered: 2011-12-13
Posts: 161
Website

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

I know that its been a while since the last post on the subject... but I wanted to chime in, too... 

If there is an opportunity to get Miguel Angel, of Eoalak, to North America for a workshop of some sorts--I'd gladly donate a handmade drum, beadwork, ornamental leatherwork , or custom painted artwork toward a fund raiser to raise funds to get him over.   I don't know if something like the Mother Earth Fair or other heretage/heirloom preservation event may be persuaded to have him as a speaker on preservation of heirloom/indigenous livestock, while here... and split costs?  (Brainstorming...)

I'm game to help however I can.

Jenn


Nashoba Family Farm: "Jill of many trades," service dog trainer/handler.  Owned by 2 svc dogs, 4 turkeys, 9 ducks, 1 rabbit, and manage Mother Clucker's Egg Co-op: a 75 hen, co-op owned, pastured, heritage flock.
Please "like" me at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mother-C … ef=tn_tnmn
and https://www.facebook.com/choctawgal

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#8 2012-10-13 12:56:15

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

poplar girl wrote:

So while I attending the poultry show this weekend i did have a chance to speak briefly with the APA judge, Ramona Tremblay (I hope my spelling is correct), about how to move forward with Euskal oiloa.

She felt that EOs could be entered in a show under the Medeteranian Class, Any Other Variety.

As any judge she indicated to select for type first. To ensure that there are no major defects like wry tail or roach back etc. Then to look for width across the back and into the tail. To ensure legs were straight and the correct distance apart. That birds were meeting the size requirements of the SOP.

She said the crooked toes could just be the result of incubation problems or, if not that,then nutritional deficiencies. That some breeds need more of certain nutrients than others. A breeder from BC eliminated problems with crooked toes just by changing the feed he gives his breeding birds.

She suggested if we have problems with small numbers of the breed and inbreeding problems to occasionally cross with a pendesenca, preferably of a similar color. She said with a landrace like the EOs they may not tolerate inbreeding very well.

Anyway, I certainly don't think the doors are closed to obtaining assistance and support from the APA with the EOs should we wish to access it.

I am considering taking a few to a show this this fall depending on how things go this year.

Just flipping through some older threads here, and I think the judge is mistaken on the class of fowl the EO belongs in.

I believe it is in the Atlantic class. I've seen it in multiple places, but this is the only one that I could find right off -  http://www.slowfoodfoundation.com/pagin … =&-tp=

Any thoughts?

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#9 2012-10-13 13:42:36

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

MD, I borrowed my American Poultry Association Standard of Perfection (APA SOP) to a friend but I looked on line and I see two things that make be believe the judge is correct. First there is no Atlantic Class for Large Breed Poultry in the APA. Second is the Catalanas are included in the Mediterranean Class.

http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/breed_cl … ations.htm

What do you think?


I have thought about taking some EOs to a show this fall but I doubt I will this year. I think next year.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#10 2012-10-13 14:56:56

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

An EO cockeral will be at the Nationals in Woodstock.  Paul (because he was from an egg Paula gave me) is going to the Nationals.  I sold him to a really nice lady down near Windsor.  She really loves that affectionate EO personality.  I'm encouaging her to join this forum.  You will all really like her.


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#11 2012-10-13 18:15:56

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

I will be going to that on Oct. 27th so I will look for "Paul" and Patricia.  How exciting :excited:

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#12 2012-10-13 20:18:23

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

poplar girl wrote:

MD, I borrowed my American Poultry Association Standard of Perfection (APA SOP) to a friend but I looked on line and I see two things that make be believe the judge is correct. First there is no Atlantic Class for Large Breed Poultry in the APA. Second is the Catalanas are included in the Mediterranean Class.

http://www.amerpoultryassn.com/breed_cl … ations.htm

What do you think?


I have thought about taking some EOs to a show this fall but I doubt I will this year. I think next year.

I think I stand corrected! :funny:


or else the APA is behind the times...  ;)

Where do Pennies fall in?  - and don't say from heaven! :Crazy:

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#13 2012-10-13 22:49:04

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

I think you can "show" them but they cannot be judged from what I understand.

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#14 2012-10-13 23:08:49

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

But they would be Mediterranean?

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#15 2012-10-13 23:46:13

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

True, so I will be curious to see what happens on the 27th. :thumbs:  I am going to take my camera this time to take some :pics:

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#16 2012-10-15 17:52:39

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

Sad news, Paul won't be at the show.  At the last minute some of Patricia's friends convinced her there was no point showing him since EOs aren't in the APA.  :(


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#17 2012-10-16 00:58:55

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

Oh that's too bad, I would have been worth it just to show them to give them some exposure. :(

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#18 2012-10-16 04:10:03

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

Yes, he would have attracted some attention from the old show dudes! :EO:

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#19 2012-10-16 13:40:55

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

It's too bad I don't have the whole day to myself that day or I think I would at least bring a pair for the exposure.  My Aunt is moving that weekend so I will be helping her that day in the afternoon, unless I can get Giddi-Up to bring them home with her??  Something for me to think about and ask her what she thinks, she helps Troy Laroche with the show, he is one of the organizers of it and a Poultry Judge. :huh:

Last edited by Flat Rock Farm (2012-10-16 13:42:07)

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#20 2012-10-16 16:20:21

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

Paula,

I think the deadline for entrees may have passed.... but I'd love to see it happen!!! :)


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#21 2012-10-16 18:48:39

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

Oh poop :(  Well so much for that idea, maybe next year then......

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#22 2012-10-16 20:49:09

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

I can take our Standards and share them with Troy and get an opionion if you'd like?


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#23 2012-10-16 21:19:21

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Would it be beneficial to start showing EOs?

That's totally up to you Kathy.

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