Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

A place to find out more and share what you know about this awesome rare poultry breed! **NOTE: Those who wish to register as a new member on the forum are asked to email eochickenforum@gmail.com and an Administrator will gladly help you join the forum!

You are not logged in.

Adverts

Adverts

#1 2012-02-05 05:19:25

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Sick Birds - need advice please...

Hey All,

I have some very sick birds here. First symptom noted is sneezing, followed by sitting on the ground not moving too much. Next is trouble breathing (beak open but not panting) along with nasal discharge and watery eyes. From the time I notice there is a problem until death is about 2 days - I've lost 2 previously healthy new hamps this week. One australorp is currently in quarantine - she's been given tetracycline or superbooster for the last 4 or 5 days - she is looking perkier, no discharge, but still sneezes and wheezes a bit when she breathes.

I'm now afraid to go to my pens to see who is next!

I've just put superbooster in the water of the whole gang that share the pen the sick ones are coming out of.

Any ideas what this is? Or what to do?

Thanks guys,
Lisa


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

Offline

 

2012-02-05 05:19:25

AdBot
Advertisements

#2 2012-02-05 12:28:54

Martin Grove Farm
Administrator
From: Waterloo, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-08-04
Posts: 510

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Sounds like it could be bronchitis but I don't know for sure.  You seem to be doing all the things I would be doing.


“Expecting life to treat you well just because you’re a good person is like expecting an angry bull not to charge you because you’re a vegetarian.”      Unknown

Offline

 

#3 2012-02-05 13:05:33

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Sorry to hear that Lisa.  Not sure exactly what it is there are so many respiratory things. 

Is their crackling when they breathe, and are any of the eggs wrinkly from any of the birds, those are bronchitis signs, My wheaten Am hens and chanties have a 'bout of it here occasionally.  Though I think only 1 chanty lays the wrinkly eggs.

It there any blood in the discharge?  ILT can have that, especially if you are finding it on the walls of the coop.

And do the birds smell bad?  Coryza has makes them smell bad.

Do any of them have swollen joints or big thin blisters of fluid on their chests near the crop area?  That is Mycoplasma synoviae, very common but I don't think any of the Mycoplasmas really kills them unless they have 2 or 3 other things going on.

With the weather all over the place, that is hard on them.  If they are not acting normally, they are pretty ill, as flock/herd animals usually compensate and look better than they feel to avoid predation and being picked on.  I'd make sure they have a heat lamp, and those not on meds maybe electrolytes or garlic or ACV in the water to help the other pens birds to help them fight it off, then you have to ride it out. 

It may be too late as a lot of the respiratory disease are very contagious, but treat your sick birds last each time you do chores, rather than seeing to them first then touching the healthy ones right after.  When I've had them that sick, or in quarantine, I launder my clothing after each time as well-much easier in the summer. 

This does sound quite serious, and if something contagious has killed more than a couple, and kills a couple more you should think about a trip to Guelph and getting autopsies done maybe an option too for peace of mind.

Offline

 

#4 2012-02-05 13:37:40

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Sorry to hear about your sick birds.  I don't know what they have or how to treat it.  Do they have enough ventilation?  Is it possible for you to let them outside on nice days.  Fresh air and sunshine does wonders.  Those that are really sick you would have to be careful that they don't get chilled outside though.  Mine have been outside this week free ranging.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

Offline

 

#5 2012-02-05 13:54:02

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Thanks for the help guys....

Gubi, my birds have been outside this week too - they all seem cheerier for the extra ventilation.....

Claire, I will check on the answers to your questions. There HAS been a wierd smell in the pen .... I'll check it again and see if I can describe it.

Yesterday, I had one egg laid that was wrinkly on the top - but the thing looks like a torpedo! I've never had an egg that big, double yolker for sure - I'm surprised the poor girl was able to put a lid on it at all...


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

Offline

 

#6 2012-02-05 14:07:54

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Lisa, for anything seriously respiratory(deaths involved), I think Tylan is the way to go. If its mild, I agree, fresh air and sunshine if at all possible and ACV in the water. I have just jhad the sniffles go through my main layer coop. Thankfully the weather is nice and they are getting out each day I've added aCV to there water everyday for a week now and things seem to be getting much better. Also make sure the coop is free of ammonia. That is possibly the hardest thing for them when dealing with resp issues. Good luck!

Offline

 

#7 2012-02-05 14:09:51

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

I'm so sorry Lisa. :sad: This sounds just like what I went through in early December. It seemed like certain breeds were more susceptible than others. My two cuckoo marans both died within about 2 days of getting sick. Over the course of about 2 weeks almost every bird got sick. Some mildly ill with only watery eyes. Some much worse where they breathed like Darth Vader for a day or two while I wondered if they would live or die.

Claire has listed the diseases I would most likely be as well as the symptoms that help distinguish one disease from the other. Do any have little bubbles in their eye? That is one of the more distinct symptoms of mycoplasma. If it is viral (ILT, infectious bronchitis) antibiotics won't help much except to avoid secondary infection. If it is coryza or mycoplasma then antibiotics such as Tylan might help.

Hang in there, I know it is really hard to watch them go through :hug:

Are your new chicks in a safe place far away from the sick adults?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

Offline

 

#8 2012-02-05 14:21:23

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Questions...

- what is ACV? And where do I get it?

- Tylan - is there a specific kind that I should ask for (is it labelled a poultry thing, or something else)? and can I get it at the feed mill?

The baby chicks are in my dining room at present :oops: , so at least they are safe!!!


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

Offline

 

#9 2012-02-05 14:58:25

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

ACV is apple cider vinegar. You want unpasteurized with the "mother". You can get it at health food stores. Its is great for clearing mucous and a general tonic. (I use 1/4 cup to 4 gallons) Tylan is the brand name of tylosin. We can get it from the feed store or vet here. It is for use in poultry with CRD (chronic Respiratory Disease) or bacterial enteritis caused by E.coli.

Offline

 

#10 2012-02-05 15:19:02

pops coops
Member
From: Saskatoon
Registered: 2011-08-04
Posts: 579
Website

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Susan is correct when it comes to ACV I use Bragg's ACV also Tylan is always on hand it will fight most bad ailments, another product that I always have on hand is Borgal, it fights very bad repertory diseases.


peafowl many colours, India blue, Silver pied, Black shoulder, Midnight black shoulder, Cameo, Buford bronze, Pieds, Whites, Purple pieds, Javas and others, Black copper marans, Wheaten marans, Blue cochins, Euskal Oiloa,  Americanas, BLRW, Jersey Giants, Silkies , Naked neck silkies, Ridley bronze Bourbon red, Guineas,  Eclectus, parrotlets, Bare Eyed Cockatoos Macaws.
http://popscoops.com/

Offline

 

#11 2012-02-05 15:22:06

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Claire, I checked your list. Here are the responses....


Is their crackling when they breathe, and are any of the eggs wrinkly from any of the birds, those are bronchitis signs

Sneezing comes first, and is the last to leave as the birds are feeling better. Yes, they start with wheezing a bit, and start sitting down looking ill. They end up sounding like Darth Vadar - mouths open, crackling. One wrinkly egg, but like I said in a previous note, there were extenuating circumstances (:))


It there any blood in the discharge?  ILT can have that, especially if you are finding it on the walls of the coop.

Nope. And I've been sneezed on and checked the walls of the coop and the quarantine pens. Also no blood in the poop, or unusual looking poops.


And do the birds smell bad?  Coryza has makes them smell bad.

The girls found this check a little intrusive! :) Held them up to my nose ..... Nope, they don't smell bad, they smell the same as before.


Do any of them have swollen joints or big thin blisters of fluid on their chests near the crop area?  That is Mycoplasma synoviae, very common but I don't think any of the Mycoplasmas really kills them unless they have 2 or 3 other things going on.

Nope, not that I can see. They don't move awkwardly either - when they are really sick, they just don't want to.


With the weather all over the place, that is hard on them.  If they are not acting normally, they are pretty ill, as flock/herd animals usually compensate and look better than they feel to avoid predation and being picked on.  I'd make sure they have a heat lamp, and those not on meds maybe electrolytes or garlic or ACV in the water to help the other pens birds to help them fight it off, then you have to ride it out.

Thanks for this tip - I didn't know that. Makes sense though....

At the moment, the coop (a converted camper) with the sick birds in it (there are 2 coughing this morning - I've run out of quarantine space so they will have to stay where they are and I'll treat the whole pen - 5 australorps, 3 new hamps, plus 2 in the infirmary) has superbooster in the water. The pop door is open, so is the roof vent. Most of the birds have chosen to go outside (may have something to do with the lettuce, cabbage and brocolli I threw out there!). They have regular layer feed + calcium + grit.

I am going to treat the water of all of my coops, preventatively. I have superbooster, electrolytes plus and ACV in my current arsenal - but just the regular grocery store kind rather than the great sounding kind from the health food store (thanks Susan for the acronym! brain malfunction....). Current plan is superbooster for the pen of sneezers, and something else non-antibiotic in the other pens. Do I choose between ACV (which is usually in there anyway) and electrolytes, or chuck 'em both in?

Also, do I add either or both to the superbooster? I think the SB is mainly electrolytes anyway, so maybe ACV in addition?



It may be too late as a lot of the respiratory disease are very contagious, but treat your sick birds last each time you do chores, rather than seeing to them first then touching the healthy ones right after.  When I've had them that sick, or in quarantine, I launder my clothing after each time as well-much easier in the summer.


Great tips - thank you.

This does sound quite serious, and if something contagious has killed more than a couple, and kills a couple more you should think about a trip to Guelph and getting autopsies done maybe an option too for peace of mind

Doug is inclined to do this (I think he is worried about bird flu....) - where do I go?

Thanks again for everyone's help and support. Boy, those 'lorp chicks may have a lot riding on their tiny shoulders..... glad I have them. :thumbs:


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

Offline

 

#12 2012-02-05 15:31:27

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Lisa if you go to buy Tylan keep in mind you can buy injectable and oral. The injectable works faster but you would need to be brave enough to give them a needle properly (in the breast I think). The water soluble is what I have used. Assume your chickens are only drinking half as much as chickens in a hot environment so mix at least to double the recommended concentration.

Do not combine ACV with any antibiotics. Not sure about electrolytes and ACV.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

Offline

 

#13 2012-02-05 16:15:25

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

I don't like tylan injectable, it's very irritating to the muscle. I would put them on oral Tylan now from the symptoms you are describing.

Offline

 

#14 2012-02-05 16:37:34

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Hey Lisa:

I have almost a full bottle of Tylan here, you are welcome to it.  As far as a place to take to do autopsy, go to Dr. Lloyd Weber, he is at 519 Maltby Rd, W just off the Hanolan Expressway, Guelph. phone # 519-821-5963.  They usually charge about $30.00 for post mortum and they do it while you wait.

Offline

 

#15 2012-02-05 20:10:51

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Wow! I wonder if they would let you watch and explain as they go- that would be very valuable. I have done a number of post mortems to teach myself, but having someone show you would be priceless.

Offline

 

#16 2012-02-05 21:23:45

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Yes they will, I took my Sebastopol goose there last summer as she died suddenly.  I could see him through the glass window and when he was done he asked me to come in and he showed me his finding.

Offline

 

#17 2012-02-05 23:39:26

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Hello All,

Many thanks to everybody for the help and support. You guys are the bestest.

Special thanks to Paula and Lynn for the offers of Tylan - I whipped up to Lynn's today (she is closer) and picked some up. The coop with the sick birds in it and the ones in the infirmary have been dosed with Tylan, and everybody else has been dosed with apple cider vinegar (just the grocery store kind - I'll look for the good stuff tomorrow).

The 'lorp that's been ill the longest is holding her own - not better, but not worse (still sneezing, but breathing sounds easier). She's eating, especially greens (she loves Doug's mung bean sprouts). The JG that went into the infirmary sneezing a bit yesterday seems completely better, but I'm going to give her one more night before putting her back in the main coop, just in case.

Next question is about Tylan - Lynn suggested that we not eat the eggs during treatment and for at least 3 weeks afterward. I noticed on the label it says not to give it to laying hens (but lots of things say that...). Is 3 weeks post-treatment what everybody else does too? And can I give those eggs to the dogs, or should they be destroyed?

Thanks gang!

PS - Paula, thanks also for the info for Dr. Weber. I think I will wait on the post mortem unless I lose one more, then I'll whip it over.... I've decided to go with optimism, and the whole "mother nature's way of weeding out the weak" - until it kills one of my show australorps.... I figure the treatment likely won't be different than what I am doing already, right?? (please feel free to give me a different opinion - I'm open to it).

Last edited by Lisa (2012-02-05 23:41:18)


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

Offline

 

#18 2012-02-06 00:03:32

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Well I think three weeks to withhold is more than enough.  I was told by my vet where I work a week and half to two weeks.  It's what you are comfortable with. I personally just turf the eggs, I don't even give them to the dogs.
If you want my Tylan to keep so you have it you are welcome to it.  I have found that using Baytril caplets works better for me.

Hope everyone is feeling better soon and no more casualties. :hug:

Offline

 

#19 2012-02-06 00:12:40

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Lisa are you using a higher does than the label (not sure if you saw my earlier post)?

There was recently a label change in the UK(?) for Tylan reducing the withdrawal time for eggs to 24 hours. Tylan has little persistence in the bird once you stop treating with it apparently. I wait about a week. I cook the eggs for the chickens being treated while I can't use them.

Flat Rock I have also heard baytril works very well, can't find it out here.

I hope your chooks continue to get better!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

Offline

 

#20 2012-02-06 00:23:14

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

PG,

I missed that! Thanks for the reminder (I think I'm a little stressed about this - I'm missing things!). Lynn, the dosage that you recommended to me - was that the labelled dosage, or a more concentrated version? I put in 1/2 teaspoon per gallon water.

Paula, I'd love the rest of your Tylan if you don't need it! Thanks so much for the offer....


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

Offline

 

#21 2012-02-06 00:36:59

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

I know Baytril is a good drug (penicillan). I am just leary of using after a hen died in my arms (within about 3 seconds) after an IM dose. She was one of the 2 Brahmas who survived the dog attack we experienced. After a week at the college and two debridement surgeries she was doing fine. 2 weekd later and her last dose of Baytril, she had an anaphylactic reaction. I know that can happen at any time with any drug, it just stays with me, so I hesitate to use it.

Offline

 

#22 2012-02-06 01:23:08

Lindy Lou
Member
From: Priceville, Ontario
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 999

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Hi Lisa,

The dose I told you was the one that Claire had told me to use so I would trust her advise. It's also good to hear that the withdrawal time is quite short when using Tylan. Hope you see some improvement soon


Some of us are driven by the need to make animals a part of our lives. We are soothed by their presence, fascinated by their behavior, and amused by their antics.

Offline

 

#23 2012-02-06 01:29:26

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

I never give injectable Baytril or Tylan, I have heard too many negatives with it and have to be very careful when injecting into the breast muscle.  Sorry about your hen Susan, that would be heart breaking.  The Tylan I have is injectable but can be given orally.  The Baytril I give is the 15mg. tablets that I buy from work (vet clinic).  Of course it is off label for chickens as is with a few things, but I have found it works very well.

Offline

 

#24 2012-02-06 01:44:57

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

No kidding! At first I thought I'd hit an air sac, but autopsy showed anaphylaxis. I was so worried I had killed her, even being confident with giving drugs IM,, subQ etc to many animals. I felt sick.

Offline

 

#25 2012-02-07 18:05:45

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Sick Birds - need advice please...

Hey Lisa, how are the birds doing??  Have been thinking about them and you :hi:

Offline

 

Adverts

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB
Hosted by PunBB-Hosting