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#1 2012-01-10 18:43:07

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

F1 & F2 questions

Island Girl wrote:

gubi wrote:

All your cockerels are nice but none are perfect.  If I would have to choose today I would choose #2, if nothing else he will get his size to the next generation.  What kind of cockerels do you have coming up in the second hatch?

Gubi, you inspired me to go and band all my chicks from Susan's eggs to see, I have 7 girls and 4 boys. Most of the chicks have yellowish legs. A couple of the boys do have some interesting combs developing. I'm not sure if they are 'normal' combs or not. I will be taking more pictures and posting them as well.

So here is a question I came up with. I believe Susan's birds are from Claire. My first batch (older pullets/cockerels) are from Claire. So are they considered F1 as in first generation. And then are my chicks from Susan now F2 as in second generation. Just curious, as someone was telling me this is a good way to keep track of the birds. To start breeding the lines away from each other, would it be better to breed either a good roo (F1) to good hens (F2) or vice versa good hens (F1) to good roo (F2) or scrap that all together and breed the F1s to each other and then the F2s to each other.

Should I have this in another thread? All opinions/explanations welcome!!

XOX Monika

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2012-01-10 18:43:07

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#2 2012-01-10 19:04:07

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: F1 & F2 questions

:goodthread: :surfing:

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#3 2012-01-10 21:14:23

ipf
Member
From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: F1 & F2 questions

RE termniology - F1 actually stands for "first filial" and usually refers to the first generation of offspring from a cross between different (generally purebred) parental types. F2 refers to the offspring of F1s intermated. If your parental types are "pure" (i.e. homozygous for traits of interest) the F1s will generally be uniform and predictable. The F2s, however, can be all over the map, and wildly different in colour size, and other traits.

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#4 2012-01-10 23:31:42

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: F1 & F2 questions

Sorry I need to catch up,but Monika, mine aren't all from Claire. There is a chance the BHR line is in there too as all my EOs are together right now :) also, Sparkle and Sequin are from Claire's Specky and 3 hens (right Claire?), but there are also my F2 generation, or sparkle/Sequins babies laying too

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#5 2012-01-11 00:14:55

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: F1 & F2 questions

I'm planing on breeding my EO pullets from this year to my EO rooster from last year.  This years pullets are sired by Curly who is a son of Specky or Speckled Jim and so is my EO rooster.  My Rooster will be a Paternal uncle to the hens he's breeding. 

Match them up to complement each other and don't double up on the faults.  All EO's in north America are descendants from Eric's stock from preservation genetics.  But lucky for us there is still lots of genetic variation within the gene pool.

Your F1's would be your Silkieoiloa's!  And your F2's would be the chicks you would get from breeding 2 silkieoiloas together.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#6 2012-01-11 00:26:10

ipf
Member
From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: F1 & F2 questions

exactly! and a very interesting lot they'd be, too.

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#7 2012-01-11 00:36:21

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: F1 & F2 questions

Susan wrote:

Sorry I need to catch up,but Monika, mine aren't all from Claire. There is a chance the BHR line is in there too as all my EOs are together right now :) also, Sparkle and Sequin are from Claire's Specky and 3 hens (right Claire?), but there are also my F2 generation, or sparkle/Sequins babies laying too

:banginghead: Not sure why I assumed that! Just for clarification (no pun on the Claire part of clair ification, :whistle: ) are Specky and Specked Jim two different roos?

XOX Monika

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#8 2012-01-11 00:43:29

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: F1 & F2 questions

Same one Specky is Speckled Jim :)

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#9 2012-01-11 00:49:01

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: F1 & F2 questions

ipf wrote:

RE termniology - F1 actually stands for "first filial" and usually refers to the first generation of offspring from a cross between different (generally purebred) parental types. F2 refers to the offspring of F1s intermated. If your parental types are "pure" (i.e. homozygous for traits of interest) the F1s will generally be uniform and predictable. The F2s, however, can be all over the map, and wildly different in colour size, and other traits.

Sorry to be so thickheaded about this, so F1 and F2 should not be used just to signify the next generation? F1 are not my hatched chicks from Claire just because they are the 'kids' of the parent stock(Claire's hens/roos). And if those chicks were then bred, the resulting chicks are not F2 just because they are the 2nd generation? Please try to be patient with me :oops:


XOX Monika

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#10 2012-01-11 01:05:56

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: F1 & F2 questions

Good discussion, yes Specky and Speckled Jim are one and the same!  He answers to both, well not answers, but approaches for attention! :whistle: 

I am starting to forget who parented who, so just looked at my EO family tree in the EO blog.  Susan, (if yours were hatched 2010 and came from Prairiechick) the parents of yours would have been Specky, Blondie and/one reddish pullet daughter of theirs or his and deceased #21 hen-the big gold one.  Stefan's first birds from me were in that group and Barney's were too.

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#11 2012-01-11 01:47:49

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: F1 & F2 questions

I am planning a similar approach to Gubi's IG. If possible mate less closely related birds (so those from Susan with those from Claire) but I will be mostly pair mating so will try to match them up so the faults of the rooster are not the same faults as the hen.

I hope (plan, intend, am scheming to) track the results of each breeding pair to understand the genetics of my birds better. In reality we'll see how keeping them all straight goes!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#12 2012-01-11 01:59:22

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: F1 & F2 questions

Yup Claire, that's right. Sparkle and Sequin are the 2010 hatch from you.   I now also have their babies and some BHR in my current breeding group.

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#13 2012-01-11 03:12:13

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: F1 & F2 questions

That's right, it's the new year-number messing me up! :duh:

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#14 2012-01-11 16:51:56

ipf
Member
From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: F1 & F2 questions

IG - well, you can use whatever term you want, but it will mislead people like me if you use the terms F1 and F2 for other than their accepted technical meaning. Why not just call them generations?

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#15 2012-01-11 17:50:20

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: F1 & F2 questions

Thank you ipf. no I want to use the correct terminology. I was just making sure I understood correctly. I really do have trouble 'getting' genetics. I will use the term generations. Sometimes the 'kiss' principal is best for me!  :P

XOX Monika

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#16 2012-01-11 20:28:16

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: F1 & F2 questions

Island Girl wrote:

Thank you ipf. no I want to use the correct terminology. I was just making sure I understood correctly. I really do have trouble 'getting' genetics. I will use the term generations. Sometimes the 'kiss' principal is best for me!  :P

XOX Monika

I'm with you Monika, I have trouble with getting the genetics as well.  At least you are trying to understand it.  You will not see me in the genetic study section as really my mind does not work like that.  I am try it and see if works type of gal.  Knowing what chicks came from who and pairing up my best birds, that's my approach to it all. :Crazy:

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