Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

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#1 2012-01-03 17:58:45

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

When I was out taking the pictures of the birds 2 days ago I did notice that MV was in a nest box and I even posted that picture of her. But last night I thought she seemed to be hanging back from the rest and this morning I definitely noticed that she is not a happy camper. I have done a recent worming with Piperazine and a dusting for mites. That was about a week or so ago. I picked her up this morning and checked her bum. No poopy feathers, no mites but she does seem thin. She doesn't have her head tucked down or anything but I did notice that she looked like she was straining like she was going to have a poop, actually I thought to myself,       "good, I can quickly see if there are any wigglies in it, but she didn't poop and then strained again and nothing, hmmm" My new waterer wasn't working very well and I noticed that there was no water in the lip part of it although it was full :huh: so I went to lift it a bit and the whole darn top of it came off and spilled water everywhere, arghhh :duh: needless to say all the birds came running for a drink, sorry kids, all but MV she should have been thirsty too. Now I am worried, do I bring her in and baby her. A little extra warmth for her, its not really cold out there and I do have a light in there if they want to use it at night. I did give them electrolites for 2 days after the worming etc should I restart that? Hate to just give her drugs at this point, should I? I could crate downstairs and give her special yogurt and oatmeal and goodies like I have heard that people do. Any suggestions would be appreciated, soon please :nervous:

XOX Monika

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2012-01-03 17:58:45

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#2 2012-01-03 18:27:51

Amblecroft
Member
From: Millbrook, Ontario
Registered: 2011-08-03
Posts: 448
Website

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Ah, there is so many things that can go wrong.   Sorry I can't help out with any particular suggestions.  Keeping them warm never hurts though.  BEst of luck with her.


Susan Buttivant at Amblecroft,
Chaparral Pyrenean Shepherds and Petits Bassets
http://www3.sympatico.ca/chaparral/amblecroft.html

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#3 2012-01-03 18:30:25

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Sorry to hear she's under the weather!  Not sure what's going on, she could

a) be trying to lay her first egg (she could be due any time) and either doesn't like the cramps or whatever or has it stuck or it's naturally taking it's time to come out
b) actually be broody or something emotional  (my Sumatras get clingy when it gets freezing cold)
c) something with the recent deworming etc may had upset her system a bit.

For any of those three, I'd say bringing her in to the warmth, and feeding her some treats/poultry feed/electrolytes shouldn't do any harm.  I don't think your temps there really shouldn't bother them, but it's all relative and  cooler temps can stress them a bit.  Hope she is OK soon. :thumbsup:

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#4 2012-01-03 19:12:24

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

IG,

Nothing practical to add beyond what Claire said - just wanted you to know my thoughts are with you and MV. C'mon girl!! :cheer:


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#5 2012-01-03 19:41:04

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Thanks guys , I think i will go and bring her in now. Do you have any suggestions for a tasty healthy treat for her or should i just stick to her pelleted food? I was thinking warm cooked oatmeal or something?

XOX Monika

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#6 2012-01-03 20:21:37

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

So I got my brooder box ready and set it up downstairs, have the electrolytes ready and was thinking about what to cook up for MV. Went to go get her and she is laying in the corner, dead :(  What the heck!!!! I am speechless!!! What could take her so fast? No breathing respiratory problems, no gurgling or sneezing or coughing, no gaping, no marks lesions or breaks, a clean dry fluffy butt, no bugs ???? I am truly stumped.  So sad!

XOX Monika

Do you think I should open her up? :huh:

Last edited by Island Girl (2012-01-03 20:25:27)

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#7 2012-01-03 20:43:58

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Oh poor girl and poor you :hug:  It is up to you if you can do it, but I would bet it is egg related.   If you open her open you may have a better idea or just none.  I did one on a Dorking, that had long grass in her huge crop, it does give some peace of mind.

If she was acting oddly and I noticed her sitting in the nest the other day and thought she must be close t lay, maybe there was just something wrong with her egg factory.  I would highly doubt it is contagious.

I just googled and these looks helpful if you do want to do an autopsy, I know one of the big sites merck or some other had photographs of what things should look like,

http://starvingofftheland.com/2010/02/t … st-mortem/

http://www.angelfire.com/ar2/rojo1/abdomina.html

http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthrea … mber=90901 Had a hen with similar behaviour

http://www.ca.uky.edu/smallflocks/Health.html  Has links to the big U of Kentucky health sites and others.

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#8 2012-01-03 20:55:43

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Oh no Monika, I'm sorry-I'm just reading this now.  POL is a very stressful time for pullets. It could be that she was eggbound, it could be the piperazine. It could be that she had a very high worm load. I doubt the last two- piperazine has a fairly safe margin of toxicosis (3X the recommended dose) and I doubt with how well you take care of your birds, she was overloaded with worms. Sometimes its impossible to tell. I used to open up birds that died. Sometimes it would tell me something, sometimes it wouldn't. :hug:

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#9 2012-01-03 21:12:06

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Monika,

I am so sorry!!  :hug:

I really do know how you feel - this is about what happened with my rooster last week (although at least I had a little bit of panting as a warning). It's kinda shocking.... and leaves you with a quick and rotten case of "if I had just done it sooner when I first noticed this might have gone differently".

I feel so badly for you. Hope you are feeling better soon. Maybe give your other birds a squeeze?


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#10 2012-01-03 21:43:57

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Oh Monika I am so sorry to read this, poor MV and poor you :hug:  She was such a unique bird.   This has happened to me in the past, just recently with Evy (she had NO signs of anything) my SLW rooster same thing.  :(

Paula

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#11 2012-01-03 22:01:31

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

It is always sad to lose a chicken.  The cold certainly can take it's toll on the chickens that are just getting by and not thriving.  I think that was the case for your roo Lisa, I think he had congestive heart failure.  Sometimes they just get lumps and bumps and cysts like people do too and they look just the same on the outside, and how can we know?  I don't our chickens could have a better set of "Moms" looking out for them, that's why we feel so bad when we lose one.  Hugs to all! :hug:

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#12 2012-01-03 22:18:59

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Thank you everyone for your nice comments and trying to help me out! I felt so odd doing a post mortum on my special little girl but needed to see whatever I could. I ended up having to take out just the body cavity so that I could be more objective with out looking at her. :Crazy: Hubby just kinda watched me, the crazy women taking off her pets extremities so they stopped looking back at me. Ugh is it too early for wine? Anyway, I feel pretty confident that it wasn't the Piperazine as it is so safe to use, I did wonder about shock with a possible dying worm overload but she had none inside of her anywhere that I could see. Also her pelvic bones were very tight together, not even 1 finger width so she was not close to laying. I have to go and check out your links Claire, thanks so much for them.

XOX Monika

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#13 2012-01-03 22:42:20

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Well it's diner time here Monika, not too early for wine and after that you could use one :wine:

Last edited by Flat Rock Farm (2012-01-03 22:42:34)

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#14 2012-01-03 23:02:05

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

I think it worries them when you can cut up something you love....maybe gives them something to think about (insert evil laugh here) :nervous:  I knew the wine smiley would come in handy :wine:  Monika there are more relevant links on the Autopsy thread, they may be more useful.

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#15 2012-01-04 01:03:45

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

:funny:


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#16 2012-01-04 01:20:59

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

:funny: oh dear, thats why he was so sheepish the rest of the day, evil grinning smiley needed! Hubby gone to get pizza, goes good with the wine!

XOX Monika

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#17 2012-01-04 02:48:15

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

First I am very sorry to hear about MV Monika :hug: I had a Minorca pullet do that this summer. She was a freebee that came along with my turkey poults and a very nice girl. One day she was fine and three days latter dead with symptoms like MV, just a bit "off" but no respiratory issue or anything. It just happens sometimes :sad:

And as to the rest...hilarious...it is also my motto to keep my DH just slightly unsure of what I am capable of ;)


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#18 2012-01-16 10:53:33

choctawgal
Member
From: Washington, USA
Registered: 2011-12-13
Posts: 161
Website

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Monika,

I'm so sorry to hear about MV.  :hug:  It hurts to have one of the "kids" we have made plans and wishes with turn up sickly or die suddenly.  *sigh*

When my Wellsummers reached their POL, I lost two without any warning sign.  It hit me hard, and I found myself questioning everything I may have seen and/or missed... but there really was no warning to catch.  I have found that the majority of chickens I've lost have not showed any signs, at least until it was too late to do anything.  It really does suck!!!  (Necropsy on those two showed an internally broken egg in one, and a blocked oviduct in the other...DAMMIT!!)

Recently I found one of my silver laced Wyandottes, also at POL, on the floor of the henhouse--barely able to stand, much less walk... out of the blue with no warning.  The day before she wasn't exhibiting anything out of the ordinary at all.  I set up my "mobile chicken ICU" (read: "clear Rubbermaid storage container") on the floor of my side of the bed.  (My hunny made some kind of comment about "taking animal husbandry too seriously.")   She got lots of fluids with Sav-a-chick electrolytes and a small bowl of plain yogurt.  Of course she was on my lap getting pep talks and STEALING the cornbread from my hand RIGHT before I could eat it!!  :funny:  It was the 1st thing she would eat in 12 hours, despite of tempting treats in the box! 

I think that is when she "turned the corner."  The next morning she passed a broken, very thin shelled, egg.  Whether it broke internally or during lay, I'll never know, but the next day she passed a small whole one.  I put Sulfamet in her drinking water when she passed the broken one, just to hopefully ward off any infection--and gave her a B-vitamin oral drench for energy.  The next day she was squawking and ruffling her feathers... letting me know how indignant her little box was making her... so I sent her back out to the coop.  She has been doing well ever since.

I just wanted to say that though we will be baffled by the ones we lose suddenly, there will be those girls that will survive and thrive because of the love and attention we give them.  Take heart.  By your posts it is obvious, you are a great chicken momma!  Hang in there.

Jenn


Nashoba Family Farm: "Jill of many trades," service dog trainer/handler.  Owned by 2 svc dogs, 4 turkeys, 9 ducks, 1 rabbit, and manage Mother Clucker's Egg Co-op: a 75 hen, co-op owned, pastured, heritage flock.
Please "like" me at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mother-C … ef=tn_tnmn
and https://www.facebook.com/choctawgal

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#19 2012-01-16 12:58:46

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Just a thought here ,but Jenn, did she spend a lot of time on your lap that day? I wonder if the warmth of you lap contributed to her passing the egg??  (Though TLC does go a long way in helping many things too....) That just made me wonder, so I thought I'd ask :)

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#20 2012-01-16 13:22:47

choctawgal
Member
From: Washington, USA
Registered: 2011-12-13
Posts: 161
Website

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Good point and thought, Susan!  She did indeed spend a few hours of lap sitting while we were watching TV.  I'd read a bit about keeping the abdomen warm in such cases and thought it certainly wouldn't hurt, especially since she wasn't very active... and I tend to be a bit of a worry-wart.  ;) 

:thanks:

Jenn


Nashoba Family Farm: "Jill of many trades," service dog trainer/handler.  Owned by 2 svc dogs, 4 turkeys, 9 ducks, 1 rabbit, and manage Mother Clucker's Egg Co-op: a 75 hen, co-op owned, pastured, heritage flock.
Please "like" me at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mother-C … ef=tn_tnmn
and https://www.facebook.com/choctawgal

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#21 2012-01-17 01:34:04

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: MV is lethargic, not sure what to do ... help please ...

Thanks Jenn, I really miss seeing her out there. Good posts on abdomen warmth and passing eggs, this kind of info gets filed in the back of my mind. Hope I never need it it but one never knows ... I love that your girl was able to convalesce in your bedroom beside you. You are a good steward of your birds!

XOX Monika

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