Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

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#26 2012-01-04 02:36:27

ChestnutRidge
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From: Western Virginia
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 251
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

:cheer: Thank you all for getting this fantastic thread (not to mention the whole forum, breed promotion, and everything else!) together!  :cheer: Just fascinating.  I'm going to hang back, because I know I do not know, but I am sure this will help me to understand what I have when I get my first batch later this spring.  Right now, it's a bit tough to consider the specific shades of buff/red that you are discussing without seeing it in person, but the photographs are really helpful.  The process is amazing.  Thanks, poplar girl, for taking all of the time and thought to put together such an excellently detailed starting place, and thanks to skeffling for wrangling all of those birds for us!

:goodthread: :applause:

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2012-01-04 02:36:27

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#27 2012-01-04 03:25:39

skeffling lavender farm
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From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

We are happy you are here following. =D You will love these, they will be worth the wait.  It is so hard to describe these shades of beige/red/gold too.  I think PG has done an awesome job. I think I need to take another look at this in the morning and make more sense of it.  It is helpful to see the similarities and differences on these different birds.  Glad we did a few tonight, even if they weren't :whistle:

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#28 2012-01-04 11:04:47

gubi
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From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

PG I can't make a picture from a SOP description either.  I remember reading about the EO's that when they weight them they also measured breast angle on them?   What this means I'm not sure because it was translated.  I do know my EO's have large thighs, but I'm not sure about calling the breast less prominent.  They do have lots of breast meat.  But there breast seems more upright to me, now I have never seen a description of breast angle in a SOP only about the back.  Maybe we have to look at the description for a Rouen duck, and word it opposite to them because they want them to drag their breast on the ground.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#29 2012-01-04 15:20:08

Young Heritage
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From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

I am trying to follow and learn but having some confusion. How would this guy rank as far as the proposed SOP goes?

http://i56.tinypic.com/ixdv90.jpg


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#30 2012-01-04 21:37:32

skeffling lavender farm
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From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

I honestly don't know, it's a little hard to see all of him, but I imagine he's in that show cage for a reason.  He look more refined (and superior) to what we have,  very fine barring.  Enormous headgear!  Looks like he has the flat front too.  That's what I call it :chairhide:  His colouring is very similar to hens, much closer than anything we have in NA I think.  I hope the experts have more insight! :whistle:

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#31 2012-01-05 00:58:45

Young Heritage
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From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

So if we are trying to base ours on the Spanish standard would this not be the coloring we are looking for? This pic is from a show in Spain for those who may not have known. Its hard for me to know what some of the color descriptions mean but a picture is invaluable to me. If this is what we are going for then I can put the descriptions to something I can see.


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#32 2012-01-05 00:59:39

gubi
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From: Walton
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Posts: 1344
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

"flat front" I guess that's one way of describing it.  When you look at his side profile from the top of his leg you can draw a straight line along the thigh and breast.  I personally prefer a smaller comb for our canadian winters.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#33 2012-01-05 01:02:08

gubi
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From: Walton
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Posts: 1344
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

That's the color we are aiming for.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#34 2012-01-05 01:04:39

skeffling lavender farm
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From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

Do we need to ask the Spanish/Basque show guys who have these and own birds like that for pictures of their best birds or features on birds, and to look over our description and critique our birds?  Even for type as much as anything?

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#35 2012-01-05 01:25:41

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

skeffling lavender farm wrote:

Do we need to ask the Spanish/Basque show guys who have these and own birds like that for pictures of their best birds or features on birds, and to look over our description and critique our birds?  Even for type as much as anything?

Yes we do! Pictures and or drawings! Do you know "who" to ask Claire?


Young Heritage the description in the first draft of the breed standard above needs work. It does not accurately describe a marraduna EO rooster's color right now, chalk it up to a first attempt.

The fellow in the photo is a very good example of what we want (from what I can see). Gubi is 100% right, his comb is too large and the blade is a bit too far from his head. Also a bit folded at the front and perhaps 1 too many points. But other than that I can't see any obvious faults. His color and pattern look very good to me.

I will take a shot at revising the description on the weekend so if anyone wants to make suggestions for what changes should be made p,ease go ahead.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#36 2012-01-05 02:36:26

Maggiesdad
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From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

Here's an image I haven't seen before.   Upright stance, flat front, no white.
Claire and other mods, double check and make sure it's OK for us to have this image here...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … ILARRA.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-P-6E9Hd_nw4/TwULrM3rz8I/AAAAAAAAAoY/ImfIlHaTFzE/s640/800px-Euskal_oiloa_MARRADUNA_barietateko_OILARRA.jpg
by Jose Maria Plazaola Erostarbe

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#37 2012-01-05 03:09:40

Maggiesdad
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From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

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#38 2012-01-06 13:47:01

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

Maggiesdad, type of the first rooster pic you posted looks pretty good. I think he is standing so that he looks a bit more upright than he really is but if he relaxed a bit I think he looks good (remember I am still leanring to "see" type, I am no expert!). Type of the second fellow you posted a link to also looks good I think.

Color wise the first pic and the second one you posted a link to made me smile. They are great because I think the first one is too light and the second one is too dark to match the Spanish (and our proposed American) standard ;) They remind me of my two roosters actually :whistle: they need to be light and dark in the right places and these guys are more uniformly light and dark (in my opinion). Also, they both have only very minimal black in the hackles, I think a bit more would be better. And the mahogany fellow (dark dude) has too many solid black feathers in his tail. I guess maybe I should be adding that as a defect as well-no entirely black feathers in the tail of the male--I suppose, not sure about the wing.

I knew the color of these birds was complicated but I had no idea how complicated. I have started to edit the breed standard (off line) based on what we have discussed. I will leave the original and post a revised one at some point this weekend (I hope!).  At any point please feel free add your thoughts, I would imagine our breed standard will need quite a few rounds of edits to get it right.

This has been a great discussion so far! I can't believe how much I have learned already through this process. Even if we don't get the written description perfect having the combination of pictures and this info to go back to is going to be a great help! :thumbsup:


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#39 2012-01-06 13:56:43

skeffling lavender farm
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From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

I must have screwed up a reply.  It`s gone :duh:  I even commented on the 2nd dudes pic on Flickr.  I like that one though I know he is dark,  I like his build more and his comb.   Thanks PG for working on this. :snowman: :thanks:  When I was writing the Squidoo article and was translating the standard that I found, it made me "fluent" in the breed.

As far as copyright MD, what you have is good.  The second pic has "all rights reserved" so linking is correct.  The first pic you have given the photographer credit and a link is always appreciated.  usually the issues arise when someone wants to use and image for commercial purposes, but it's always good to read the terms of use of an image on flickr, morgefile or wiki commons.  :thumbs:

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#41 2012-01-07 23:06:51

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

Version 2:

BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA)

Euskal oiloa first came into being as a natural breed evenly distributed across farms of the historical territories of Bizkaia, Araba and Gipuzkoa of the Basque Country (Euskal Herria) of Spain.  Recovery and preservation of this breed began in 1975 when Dr. Fernando Orozco and his team at the Department of Animal Genetics INIA recognized the devastating impact that the use of hybrid laying hens for commercial production of the regionally preferred brown shelled eggs was having on the native breed. Based on this work, Dr. Jose Antonio Mendizabal drafted the spanish breed standard. The introduction of basque fowl into North America is relatively recent and the breed has attracted a following in Canada and the United States as a result of the combination of traits for hardiness, attractive color patterns, a friendly temperament, and good egg and meat producing properties.

ECONOMIC QUALITIES
A dual purpose medium weight fowl for production of both meat and eggs. Color of skin, yellow; color of egg shell varying from very light to a rich brown depending on the individual, strain and stage of production.

DISQUALIFICATIONS 
White in the ear-lobes. Shanks other than yellow. 

STANDARD WEIGHTS
Cock..........8 lbs
Cockerel....6.5 lbs
Hen...........5.5 lbs
Pullet.........4.5 lbs

SHAPE-MALE
COMB:   Single, medium in size, straight and upright, firm and even on head with five to seven well-defined points. Blade slightly raised from the back of the neckline.
BEAK: Strong, vigorous and well curved.
FACE: Smooth.
EYES: Large and oval.
WATTLES:  Long, thin and smooth, with a rounded lower edge.
EAR-LOBES:  Medium in size, lying close to the face, smooth and lanceolate.
HEAD:  Long and wide.
NECK:   Moderately long. Hackle abundant and flowing over the shoulders.
BACK:   Broad, sloping slightly downward to the tail.  Saddle feathers abundant and medium length.
TAIL:   Moderately large.  Carried at an angle of 45 degrees (45 °) above horizontal. Main tail feathers broad and overlapping. Sickles of medium length, well arched.
WINGS:  Large, well-folded and held tightly to the body.
BREAST:  Broad, deep and well rounded.
BODY AND FLUFF: Body fairly developed. Fluff moderately full.
LEGS AND TOES: Lower thighs strong and robust. Shanks rather long, thick, heavy. Toes four on each foot.

SHAPE-FEMALE
COMB:   Single, medium in size, straight and upright, firm and even on head with five to seven well-defined points. Blade slightly raised from the back of the neckline.
BEAK: Strong, vigorous, nicely curved. 
FACE: Smooth.
EYES: Large and oval.
WATTLES:  Medium length, thin and smooth, with a well rounded lower edge.
EAR-LOBES:  Rather small, lying close to the face, smooth and lanceolate.
HEAD:  Long and wide.
NECK:  Moderately long.
BACK:  Broad, sloping slightly downward to the tail.
TAIL:   Rather small.  Carried at an angle of 35 degrees (35 °) above horizontal. 
WINGS:  Large, well-folded and held tightly to the body.
BREAST:  Broad, deep and well rounded.
BODY AND FLUFF: Body fairly developed. Fluff moderately full.
LEGS AND TOES: Lower thighs strong and robust. Shanks rather long, thick, heavy. Toes four on each foot.

MARRADUNA BASQUES

DISQUALIFICATIONS 
Entirely white or black feathers in the sickle or main tail feathers. Entirely white feathers in the the primary or secondary wing feathers.

COLOR-MALE

COMB, FACE, WATTLES AND EAR-LOBES:  Bright red.
BEAK:  Yellow.
EYES:  Reddish bay.
HEAD: Plumage, finely barred with white and golden-red.
NECK:  Hackle finely barred with white and light golden-red with a narrow black stripe, irregularly barred with white, extending down the middle of each feather. Front of neck same as breast.
BACK: Barred dark golden-red. Saddle finely barred lustrous dark golden-red.
TAIL: Main tail alternating bars of black and white. Sickles the same as the main tail with lustrous greenish black. Coverts black and white barring, the white barring gradually turning to dark golden-red approaching the saddle.
WINGS: Front and bows barred white and medium chestnut red. Secondary coverts barred white and dark golden-red. Primaries barred white and black with upper edge golden-red. Primary coverts white and black barred edged with golden-red.
BREAST: White and golden-red barred.
BODY AND FLUFF: Body irregularly barred with white and golden-red similar to the breast. Stern irregularly and indistinctly barred with white and golden-red. Fluff ivory.
LEGS AND TOES: Lower thighs indistinctly barred with white and golden-red. Shanks and toes yellow.
UNDERCOLOR OF ALL SECTIONS: Ivory

COLOR-FEMALE
COMB, FACE, WATTLES AND EAR-LOBES:  Bright red.
BEAK:  Yellow.
EYES:  Reddish bay.
HEAD: Golden-red
NECK:  Dark golden-red. Lower neck feathers with a black stripe, slightly and irregularly barred with white, extending down the middle of each feather. Front of neck similar to breast. 
BACK: Golden-red.
TAIL: Main tail black edged with golden-red. Shaft golden-red.
WINGS: Front and bows dark golden-red. Bar and secondaries golden-red. Primaries golden-red with lower web of first few primary feathers black transitioning to golden-red. Primary coverts black edged with golden-red. When the wing is folded in the natural position only the golden-red color shows.
BREAST: Light golden-red.
BODY AND FLUFF: Light golden-red with faint and indistinct white barring. Stern irregularly and indistinctly barred with white and light golden-red. Fluff ivory.
LEGS AND TOES: Lower thighs light golden-red. Shanks and toes yellow.
UNDERCOLOR OF ALL SECTIONS: Ivory


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#42 2012-01-07 23:16:10

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

Note I used the photo that Young Heritage posted as a guide for the ideal male color. The medium honey colored hens would be the female breed standard I tried to describe. Instead of "golden-red" I thought about using "wheaten=the color of a grain of wheat" but stuck with golden-red for now. As we are the authors right now there is no barriers to further changes so please lets hear what you think!

Oh! And go look deep into your basque chicken's eyes...what color are they? Most chickens eye color is described as reddish bay. A few are called other colors. How do the EO's eye color compare?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#43 2012-01-08 01:17:21

skeffling lavender farm
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From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

That looks great PG.  The colour of that roo looks right to me.  I like the golden red label, because they are darker than gold and are a light red.  Leaving it as red may make people aim for too red. 

I had Specky on my knee for 20 minutes today having his face stroked and a nice cuddle, and he has his eyes closed for most of the time but I remeber his are a goldy-red.  Blondies are a golden green.  I'll take a look again.  We should take another look at our pictures we have posted too.

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#44 2012-01-08 15:18:45

ChestnutRidge
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From: Western Virginia
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 251
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

Here's a picture (mine) showing a reddish bay eye.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6659801037_08daa19476.jpg
Is that what we are going for?

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#45 2012-01-08 15:32:09

poplar girl
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From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

Great picture Chestnut Ridge! I think the question is more like is that the color of people's current EOs eyes? The Spanish breed standard translated to say "brown" but looking my EOs I think their eye color is the same as my dorkings which is described as reddish bay. Except like Claire I have one with green eyes. So just trying to figure out what color description to use in our description.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#46 2012-01-08 16:10:29

skeffling lavender farm
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From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
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Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

I'll go and check! :chook:

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#47 2012-01-08 18:09:50

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

Yup think I'll be spending some more time in the coop today. I keep forgetting what I am suppose to be looking for. Think I will take out the camera and print off post #41, maybe pen and paper. I would like to take the laptop out with me but I am picturing chicken poop on the keyboard! :sick: 

XOX Monika

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#48 2012-01-08 19:14:03

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

Island Girl wrote:

Yup think I'll be spending some more time in the coop today. I keep forgetting what I am suppose to be looking for. Think I will take out the camera and print off post #41, maybe pen and paper. I would like to take the laptop out with me but I am picturing chicken poop on the keyboard! :sick: 

XOX Monika

Yes, that might be risky especially with EOs....they are curious and have no fear so will want to get up close and personal with your computer for sure! Taking a printout with you is a great idea though!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#49 2012-01-09 02:50:11

ChestnutRidge
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From: Western Virginia
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 251
Website

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

I've been poking around the internet, trying to educate myself so that I can be a good EO steward and keep up with all of you (seriously! :wine: ) and I found this article: http://www.lygeum.es/?p=216.

The information is really basic, but the rooster is really handsome.  How do he and the hens compare to what we are going for?  I think he and the girls have good coloring overall and that flat-ish chest.  Are his thighs heavy enough?  Is that too much white in his secondaries?

Still, a pretty boy!

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#50 2012-01-09 02:52:18

ChestnutRidge
Member
From: Western Virginia
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 251
Website

Re: Topic 1: BASQUE (EUSKAL OILOA) BREED STANDARD

poplar girl wrote:

Island Girl wrote:

Yup think I'll be spending some more time in the coop today. I keep forgetting what I am suppose to be looking for. Think I will take out the camera and print off post #41, maybe pen and paper. I would like to take the laptop out with me but I am picturing chicken poop on the keyboard! :sick: 

XOX Monika

Yes, that might be risky especially with EOs....they are curious and have no fear so will want to get up close and personal with your computer for sure! Taking a printout with you is a great idea though!

:funny:  Great mental image...

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