Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

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#26 2011-10-16 02:36:12

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Something to think about?

APA would be the goal later down the road. But its one step at a time. This is not gonna be a rushed thing. Talking about it is the start. Its pretty simple. We enjoy our Basque, we talk over time about how we would like to go about things. Do you think an Association is something that shouldnt be done poplar girl? If so, what would you do first? Tell me how you'd like to go about this. Do you feel the forum is all we need? Because I'm starting to get a little confused now.
You said it and everyone knows it. Someone is going to do this at one point and time. That's why I went ahead and brought it up. I hesitated for some time to even talk about it because I had a feeling some people were not gonna agree with it. But if we love our EO's and we want others to enjoy them as well then what do we do? The more people who get them the more they're going to see what we see in them. About the only way I see this not going down that road is if we just don't let nobody have eggs from these birds. And I can't do that. The more people who has this breed the better. EO's will finally flourish and not be lost and go concrete.  Again, I want to stress this. I'm not looking to rush anything. I just wanted to bring it to thhe surface and not let it be just a thought.

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2011-10-16 02:36:12

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#27 2011-10-16 12:45:55

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Something to think about?

Shyline i am neither in favor OR against the idea at this point. Please don't see my questions as lacking enthusiasum or discarding others good ideas as, if an association is to be formed, excitement and comittment from the founding members like yourself will be critical!! I do think :EO: and this is a discussion that needs to be had, there is just alot to consider when making this decision.

I am in the information gathering and understanding phase. I am a pretty practical and objective person when it comes to most things so for me whether forming a North American Euskal Oilola (or Basque?) Poultry Association is a good or bad idea really comes down to what having an association will accomplish. Another way to say it is, what will be the madate of our association? And then second, what would be the best way to go about forming that association if we decide to go forward. I know amblecrofts experience with dogs will be very valuable but talking to someone who has been a founding member with a poultry association would be a logical first step for me prior to deciding anything. If the end goal down the road is to have the breed recognized by the APA then consulting someone in the APA is still the right first step as well IMO. In reality I am not sure what poultry associations exist that are not associated with the APA but it would be interesting to find out. Maybe something for the crossbreeds such as ISA browns?   

What does everyone think? Am i making things more complicated than they need to be? Skyline, when you say "We enjoy our basques and talk about over time how we want to go about things." I guess I am supposing that is what this forum is for. When we get to the stage of starting an Association I see that as the stage where we KNOW how we want to go about things (at least the fundamentals of it) and by forming an association we publicly declare our mandate etc. I don't think figuring the basics of that out will need to be a long drawn out process, just a few weeks or a month of research and discussion perhaps? I guess I just don't think it is a good idea to decide to go forward without a bit more research.

I would NOT suggests not sharing eggs etc by any means. With or without a North American Association EOs are still a recognized breed in Spain.

Now is a great time for this discussion and I am glad this was brought up. Forming an association though is a big decision and it will create debate and discussion that everyone must be prepared for. I guess I am not a very fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants kind of girl and the above just makes that obvious.

I look forward to as many member's opinions as are willing to voice them. Now is the time it seems!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#28 2011-10-16 16:10:45

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Something to think about?

Well I did a tiny bit of looking and the good news is in 2009 the APA admitted American Game (several different colors all at the same time). In 2004 guinea fowl (3 colors) were recognized. So that means that it is feasible, just a matter of figuring out what is involved.

I am still looking to find poultry associations that operate completely independent of the APA...


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#29 2011-10-16 16:20:03

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Something to think about?

Okay...here is an example...the penedesenca. There is a US poultry association for this breed but it is not recognized by the APA. Below is a link to the website, perhaps this might provide some guidance and ideas for us?

http://penedesencausapoultryclub.com/


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#30 2011-10-16 16:23:02

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Something to think about?

Wow you guys- this is excellent! What a great dialogue. I love the fact that everyone feels free to express their ideas here and is so respectful. This is a first test of how well we can work together.  Look at all of the enthusiasm and ideas that are coming from it. I think we are going in the right direction to question what our goals are and to define a future mandate. Speaking with others who have done this before will be an asset as well. Way to go EO lovers!

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#31 2011-10-16 18:20:52

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Something to think about?

Didn't the Marans just get accepted into the APA? If so may be another group we could talk too.


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#32 2011-10-16 19:29:58

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Something to think about?

I believe only an additional color or marans was added but I could be mistaken.

I read the APA constitution this morning. Article  VI, section 2 Admission of Breed and Varieties outlines what would be required. I can't find it electronically to post but the condensed version is:

A petition must be sent to the Secretary giving the history, breeding background and facts of an educational nature including proposed name and the standard of perfection. 200 or more birds (with a minimum of 20 per variety) must have been shown in the past three years by at least three exibitors. Birds must be shown in all classes. At least 5 breeders must supply an affidavit stating that they have been breeding for 5 or more years and that 50% or more of the birds resulting from breeding meet the standard of perfection. At a chosen APA show at least 5 exibitors and 50 birds representing all classes (cock, hen, cockerel, pullet) will then take place. The committee will then decide if the breed and each variety are to be accepted. Costs for placing the breed in the SOP must be paid.

I emailed Heather Hayes this morning as well as provided her with a link to this forum. I hope she will respond but I know she is a very busy lady.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#33 2011-10-16 21:08:57

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Something to think about?

EO supporters, :goodthread:

Very glad people are wrestling with this idea, even though it's controversial and people may have different opinions. PG, thanks especially for your last note - lets me know that regardless of the direction we go, I should be keeping good records of how long I am breeding, and what the results are like. Seems like some good reliability in the breeding results are necessary if we want to have the option of trying for APA recognition down the road.

Personally, I have an interest in sharing these birds with others, given how pleasant and practical they are (sounds like a cold and clinical description of birdies we all love, but there you have it!). One of the best ways to get people interested is to have lots of people see the birds. I'm guessing that one of the best ways to do that is to show the birds. I'm game - I'm showing australorps anyway, and would be happy to take some EO's along once we have some stabilized.

I've been doing a tiny bit of PR work for EO's this year - I ended up clerking at two shows, and made a point of talking with the judges about them. They hadn't heard of them (that's been corrected! =D)

One thing I'm not sure of - how do you show birds at reputable shows when they are not in the APA standard? What category do they go in? I think the "Any Other Standard Variety" (AOSV) category that I've seen wouldn't apply, because they aren't standard. I can ask someone I know that organizes shows if we think it might be helpful to know.

I'm thinking it's no more difficulty to enjoy my birds and keep good records of them than to enjoy them and not record the results! That way I can contribute if we want to go ahead in a few years and try for recognition. Can't really see a down side to that - I'm still going to keep my favorite flop-combed, white legged, grey breasted hen, even if she's not a good example of the breed, same as I would any other hen of a recognized breed ;)

Not sure I understand the implications of the other question that is being posed on this thread - forum versus association. Could someone clarify the difference for me?  Thanks!


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#34 2011-10-17 06:00:35

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Something to think about?

Awesome research PG! Hats off to you. The more I read and think about things the more I just want to sit back and just enjoy the forum. I believe that this forum will bring everyone together in a way that an association could never do. Let's just enjoy our EO's and take each day with a grain of salt. Salted EO that is :eat:

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#35 2011-10-17 11:18:09

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Something to think about?

Lisa, I would also like to know how one can show EOs. This came up a few months ago when I was speaking to an APA judge and I never did receive a clear answer but I would really like to know.

For anyone who is an APA member, I found the Consitution in the year book if you would like to read it in detail. I tried to summarize the important parts but it is worth reading the original.

Skyline, Ha ha, just had one of those last night in fact, salted roasted EO that is :eat:

I think the forum can be our "breed club" for now too. But as Lisa said once we start to stabilize the breed and its colors maybe we can come back to this discussion to ensure we are keeping the records we need to etc. In case we do want to go a more formal route down the road a few years.

So that means our breed standard remains that of Spain right? I like that idea!
:EO:


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#36 2011-10-18 01:30:01

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Something to think about?

Here is Heather Hayes advice to us:

Now to you question, a breed association is a great idea as perhaps then records can be kept as one of the requirements is for 5 breeders breeding for 5 years and of course you will need proof that the breed breeds true for color and type etc. So with an association at the very least you will be able to organize a plan of action. I know nothing about them whether or not they they come in different varieties but it it best to try and perfect 1 color at a time and at least with an association, providing all the parties have the same vision, is a very good idea. You will also be able to archive info from the country of origin for the standards committee when the time arrives.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#37 2011-10-18 01:32:31

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Something to think about?

poplar girl wrote:

Here is Heather Hayes advice to us:

Now to you question, a breed association is a great idea as perhaps then records can be kept as one of the requirements is for 5 breeders breeding for 5 years and of course you will need proof that the breed breeds true for color and type etc. So with an association at the very least you will be able to organize a plan of action. I know nothing about them whether or not they they come in different varieties but it it best to try and perfect 1 color at a time and at least with an association, providing all the parties have the same vision, is a very good idea. You will also be able to archive info from the country of origin for the standards committee when the time arrives.

Hmmmmm.
Everyones thoughts on this?

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#38 2011-10-18 01:44:41

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Something to think about?

I think its good advice. The problem is we are not "breeding true" to the marradunna colour yet. We are getting all sorts of variation. Leg colour, barring, side sprigs and body colour is still all over the place. I am seeing fairly uniform size and shape this year, all of my birds have had yellow legs but there have been a few side sprigs. I have lots with grey mottled in their colouiring. Sklyine, what are you getting from your test hatches? How uniform are your chicks coming out?

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#39 2011-10-18 01:47:36

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Something to think about?

I should mention- I have kept records of my birds bred this year, but in a notebook. Is there a certain set procedure to follow?

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#40 2011-10-18 01:49:29

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Something to think about?

Mine are looking good. I got some grey leggs here and there but select breeding will cut that out...I'm not seeing this being a problem with the stock I have.

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#41 2011-10-18 01:55:26

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Something to think about?

How about side sprigs and too much grey?  Are you getting blue/ green legs?What's the weight on your cockerals? How many babies did you include in your test hatches?  I only hatched about 25 this year for testing. Some have looked really good, others are now in my laying flock for table eggs.

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#42 2011-10-18 02:07:47

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Something to think about?

I hatched out around 50 eggs at a 100% hatch rate. One coronation comb. Ill be hatching out close to a thousand chicks in 2012. I'm not seeing this being a problem at all. Very excited! Ill make this happen one way or another. I've down sized my stock of Sixty something breeds to just 19 at this point and time to dedicate myself to this breed..

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#43 2011-10-18 02:32:29

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Something to think about?

No green/blue or willow legs?  No lack of barring? One side sprig? No crooked toes? Really? Wow you are doing well :)

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#44 2011-10-18 02:41:46

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Something to think about?

I had some birds with off colored leggs and some barring issues on some males. But these issues are minor. I've done culled a lot of birds already and select mateing is already underway.
:thumbsup:

This is good news guys!

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#45 2011-10-18 11:30:42

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Something to think about?

Susan i would agree with you, i will need another few generations, probably a couple more years, to stabilize the desired traits and start to get a consistent flock. Things like side sprigs and feathers between the toes or on the shank will be hard to eliminate and would be disqualifications.  White feathers in the tail (or on the wing i believe) are also DQs. Color of shank and plumage is highly variable in my birds right now. For me body size and I would guess egg production and size are also variable. It's going to take some time I would think, which is okay with me! Susan I might need exclusive rights to supplying you with Table Egg replacement chickens though as I suspect I will have alot of beautiful girls not suitable for breeding in need of a good home!! No buying any pullets from strangers!!

And my records are a bit lacking I would think. I have kept good records on the numbers hatched by date and where the eggs came from but no details or each chicks traits, sex, etc. Mine are on paper too Susan. I only record details of the ones I keep. That will probably need to change this year. As a group we may want to try to come up with some standards for record keeping.

Still I do think we can cover all these topics on our forum. And not everyone who owns EOs has to want to take it to the next level, nothing wrong with just enjoying your birds.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#46 2011-10-18 12:40:28

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Something to think about?

Not sure if this needs to be a different thread but what methods do you use to track your chickens? Pros and cons of each method?


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#47 2011-10-18 13:14:03

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Something to think about?

Done YH! :) good idea.

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#48 2011-10-18 13:15:41

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Something to think about?

Skyline, are you planning to show next year?  Do you have some good shows in your area? Anyone else planning to show in 2012?

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#49 2011-10-18 16:24:26

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Something to think about?

I will Susan. My Australorps are divas, and I'd like to find somewhere to start showing EO's. =D


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#50 2011-10-18 17:02:03

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Something to think about?

Susan wrote:

Skyline, are you planning to show next year?  Do you have some good shows in your area? Anyone else planning to show in 2012?

I dunno....... What do you think?

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