Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

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#1 2013-12-11 04:11:49

Purdybirdy
New member
From: Innisfil, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2013-12-08
Posts: 6
Website

What do I have and what should I do

So I got a few EO's from a lady as week old chicks in the summer.  (I was buying turkeys and she talked me into them).  I had never heard of them before I got them and so have no idea as to what they are supposed to look like,  I have attached pictures of the 11 birds I have and would love some input.  In my opinion there is a lot of variances in the 9 Hens and a few of them look like barnyard crosses, but I may be mistaken.  The lady I got them from like I said is highly involved in developing the Euskal Oiloa.

I would really love some expert advice and a critic on each bird so that I can better educate myself and also make the right choices in breeding for the next generation.  I will not get insulted so don't worry about hurting my feelings.  I would just love a good old honest review.

Thanks in advance

Brian

Rooster # 1
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Rooster_1_zpsf317ff81.jpg

Cockerel # 1
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Cockalier_1_zpsb9a58467.jpg

Hen # 1
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Hen_1_zps4661359c.jpg

Hen # 2
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Hen_2_zps70ef19be.jpg

Hen # 3
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Hen_3_zpsfde8de3a.jpg

Hen # 4
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Hen_4_zpse03e296b.jpg

Hen # 5
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Hen_5_zps1cd974a4.jpg

Hen # 6
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Hen_6_zps2ade0bff.jpg

Hen # 7
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Hen_7_zps98ef4bd8.jpg

Hen # 8
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Hen_8_zps26ac547c.jpg

Hen # 9
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag208/Purdypuppy/Hen_9_zps775662ff.jpg


Some days are good. Some days are not so good. Life, either good or bad, is better than the alternative.

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2013-12-11 04:11:49

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#2 2013-12-11 05:43:46

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: What do I have and what should I do

Those are some great clear pictures, most are very easy to see details and stance.  :pics:  Unfortunately, I am not certain, but I think there is a fair bit of barnyard in there, the roosters look quite Welsummer-y, or Wheaten something, the second dude looks more like a young EO to me.  Technically, the first rooster looks like a superior bird to the second, he is bigger and bulkier, but may just be older.  For breeding EO's, I'd honestly start with trying to get another roo, I can even give you one, if we can get one to you.  I think you will save yourself a lot of years that way, as I am seeing no barring and too much black.  Another less disruptive option for the flock is getting hatching eggs in the spring, where you can see the parents first, then keeping the best of those and yours for breeding in 2015.

The first two (maybe third one too) blacker hens look almost a different shape to the later ones (alsmost more wyandotte shapes, but the comb is wrong I think), and more likely crossed.  You have a fair bit of black in the others but they have an unmistakeable EO look.  The heads and little faces are EO.  Hen 4 and 6 looks the best bets for breeding, and I think hen 6 may be the best shape/size, though I'd need to see her standing differently.  They are have nice yellow legs, I still don't here :duh: 

Hens 8 and 9 are nicely bulky, I find the smaller narrower birds like 5 and 7 will widen up, but take longer (another year or two) and I try to breed the ones that fluff out and look like proper  hens their first fall when I have a choice.  Hen 8 may be a cross too now I look closer,  her face looks more welsummer-like or something, just different anyway.

We are finding the black or black and white (Mille Fleur) on the main body feathers is hard to get rid of in the breed, so the less you start with the better!  Are they friendly, they look it!  All looking at the camera!   They are a handsome flock and I bet they are productive too.

Thanks for posting, I am sure you'll get more opinions coming up.  I have had EOs for quite a while now, nearly 6 years, but haven't been on the site in a while so may have lost my "eye" for their shape in a photo, and out of touch with the breeding results/discoveries this year, so don't go by just me!!  I'll be interested to see what everyone thinks too.

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#3 2013-12-11 12:34:06

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: What do I have and what should I do

Hi Brian, thanks for posting pictures of your EO's :pics:

Looks like you have the Gorria EO's.  Rooster #1 has way too much black in his chest and tail, very handsome though.  Along with hen #1,2 & 9 the same too much black for a Gorria.  If I was going to pair anyone up it would be cockerel # 1 with hens 3,4,6,7,8.  They all have nice yellow legs and beak and better feather colour :thumbsup:  Here is a link to Lisa's Gorria's that she showed in the fall for comparison.

http://forums.euskaloiloas.com/viewtopic.php?id=1762

Last edited by Flat Rock Farm (2013-12-11 12:37:42)

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#4 2013-12-11 12:40:02

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: What do I have and what should I do

The two boys and the first 3 hens if they are not a cross are gorria basques as they don't have any barring. Even ladies 4 through 9 don't really look to have any barring although they are closer to the correct body color for
Marraduna. Did the person you purchased the chicks from say what variety (gorria or marraduna) they were supposed to be? They definately have too much black on them either way.

As for body type, that's always a bit harder to see in pictures. Hens #1 and #2 don't really have a typical EO shape to them. I like the type on the rooster.  How old are the cockerel and the hens Brian?

You may want to pull open their wings and look for split wing as well. It's where there is a district gap like a feather or two are missing in the middle of the fan of feathers when the wing is extended. It looks to me like a few of them from the way they are holding their wing may have split wing, I could easily be wrong though.

Loving the bright yellow legs on all of them.

Lol...edited to add FRF is way speedier than me!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#5 2013-12-11 12:58:04

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: What do I have and what should I do

:P=D

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#6 2013-12-11 13:42:38

Purdybirdy
New member
From: Innisfil, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2013-12-08
Posts: 6
Website

Re: What do I have and what should I do

To me they all look to different not to be cross breeds.  There should be some uniformity in them at least.  The Rooster is a couple of months older than the Cockerel that explains the size difference.

I got them from a person on this list so I had hoped that if they were involved in trying to raise the popularity of the breed that they would be selling real EO's and not barnyard mixes.

I may just make dinner with them and put it up as a lesson learned and start again with real EO's.

Thoughts?


Some days are good. Some days are not so good. Life, either good or bad, is better than the alternative.

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#7 2013-12-11 13:56:02

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: What do I have and what should I do

EO's are still a working progress.  Even with the Marraduna most of us have been battling for proper feather colour, body type, comb and leg beak colour.  So don't get disheartened with them just pick the best you have and go forward with them. :thumbs:

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#8 2013-12-11 14:08:42

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: What do I have and what should I do

I wouldn't be to fast calling them crossbreeds.  There is still a lot of variety in the breed as all of us know that have hatched a significant number of EO's.  They are gorria EO's and some of them have too much black in them like a lot of my marradunas still do too.  I would compare the first rooster to a grey chested marraduna boy and probably #2 will be a better option to keep as a breeder.  For hens I really like the #8 hen the best.  I find that I keep about 1 or 2 out of 10 back as breeders the rest I either keep as layers or sell.  It is hard for me to judge type and even harder when they are sitting on the roosts. I do think the #8 hen has the best color and also looks to be your heaviest pullet, she's the one I would keep back for breeding.   I would keep an eye on the others that Flat Rock Farm mentioned too to see what they will mature into.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#9 2013-12-11 15:22:49

Purdybirdy
New member
From: Innisfil, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2013-12-08
Posts: 6
Website

Re: What do I have and what should I do

So:

skeffling lavender farm says -  "Hen 4 and 6 looks the best bets for breeding, and I think hen 6 may be the best shape/size, though I'd need to see her standing differently."

Flatrock says - cockerel # 1 with hens 3,4,6,7,8.

Gubi says -   probably #2 (cockerel) will be a better option to keep as a breeder.  For hens I really like the #8 hen the best.

Does anyone have a picture of the perfect Rooster and the Perfect Hen for a Gorria EO's?  If I knew what they were supposed to look like I could have a better idea as to what I was looking to achieve.


Some days are good. Some days are not so good. Life, either good or bad, is better than the alternative.

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#10 2013-12-11 16:06:06

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: What do I have and what should I do

Sorry just to clarify you have them down as Rooster # 1 and Cockerel #1, so I picked Cockerel # 1 is he 1 or 2?? Which I think is who gubi picked as well.  I will try and get a picture uploaded for you PB.

Actually found a link on BYC that someone has posted all the varieties of Basque's: http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/51004 … st_6803729

Hope this helps??

Last edited by Flat Rock Farm (2013-12-11 16:10:48)

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#11 2013-12-11 16:30:22

Purdybirdy
New member
From: Innisfil, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2013-12-08
Posts: 6
Website

Re: What do I have and what should I do

Have you looked at all of those verieties?  Is there any Standardization in the colour or style?  They have Naked Necks that they are calling EO's.  They also have Delewares or something that looks like them.  I think I also saw a Rhode Island Rooster.  If there is so much variety in colour and look, how can the Gorria EO's even be considered a breed?


Some days are good. Some days are not so good. Life, either good or bad, is better than the alternative.

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#12 2013-12-11 17:42:48

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: What do I have and what should I do

Euskal Oiloa is the breed Gorria is the color.  Gorria is a similar color to New Hampshire.  Marraduna are Gorria that are also barred.  Just like there are barred, white, partridge and all kinds of different colored Rocks out there, there are different colors of EO's too.  In North America we only have the Gorria and the Marraduna color.  There might be a few working on trying to get the Beltza(black) and the Zillarra(light Sussex/brahma color)


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#13 2013-12-11 20:31:49

Amblecroft
Member
From: Millbrook, Ontario
Registered: 2011-08-03
Posts: 448
Website

Re: What do I have and what should I do

Hens #4, 6 & 7 are the only colours I am personally familiar with. I would email the breeder and ask him/her if they could possibly be crossed with anything else.


Susan Buttivant at Amblecroft,
Chaparral Pyrenean Shepherds and Petits Bassets
http://www3.sympatico.ca/chaparral/amblecroft.html

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#14 2013-12-11 23:30:08

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: What do I have and what should I do

Euskal Oiloa is still a work in progress in North America.  They come from the Basque region of Spain and were hit hard by the World Wars and the industrialization  trying to standardize chicken breeds for mass production.  Thankfully lots of stubborn Basque farmers kept the lines pure.  They are an important part of Spain's slow food movement.  The Euskal Oiloa in Spain comes in 5 colours.  In Canada, the first importers purchased 3 of the 5 colours in fertile egg form and did't realize they should be kept separate so he mixed the colours together.  This created the previously unknown Mille Fleur variety.  Which I hope will be a recognized colour in North America some day. Dedicated North American breeders have spent over years separating the colours back out!  When you purchase EOs you must be aware that this separation process is not yet complete and not all chicks will be 100% true to colouing.  Maraduna is the closest to standard at this time.  You have the Gorria colour. 

You stock has good body type and head shape.  There is too much black on them.  For your next generation,  keep the lovely conformation you have but select the young with the least black, you can breed it out.  Lisa, Helleliphant and I breed Gorria and are quite close now. 
Here is a photo of one of my young Gorria cockerals:
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q503/MicahandKiah/P1120930_zps14121b4e.jpg
Here is a gorria pullet   http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q503/MicahandKiah/P1140306_zps8a6b1b48.jpg

I will try to get outside and take updated photos of the Gorrias.  It is exciting to talk to someone else who is breeding this lovely colour of Euskal Oiloa!


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#15 2013-12-11 23:31:30

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: What do I have and what should I do

PS  Not to confuse the issue, Behind my pullet are some Welsummers.


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#16 2013-12-11 23:51:52

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: What do I have and what should I do

Purdybirdy wrote:

Have you looked at all of those verieties?  Is there any Standardization in the colour or style?  They have Naked Necks that they are calling EO's.  They also have Delewares or something that looks like them.  I think I also saw a Rhode Island Rooster.  If there is so much variety in colour and look, how can the Gorria EO's even be considered a breed?

The Basques should all have the same type, if their feathers were removed. I believe I recall that there was some variation in annual egg production between the different colors.


The five types are Black, White, Red, Barred Red, and Naked Neck.

            "         Beltza, Zillara, Gorria, Marraduna  y  Lepasoila

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#17 2013-12-12 00:42:00

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: What do I have and what should I do

H'Lo folks, =D

Sorry to come late to the party - report season!

Those chicks are from the first generation of hatching from my gorria pen (delivered via Helen along with some Beltsville poults from her place) - they are clearly a work in progress, to be sure. The parents were hatched from Susan's eggs last year (four hens, 2 roos - one of them Kathy's big guy Charlie). I will have a better look at Brian's birds on the weekend when I have more time. They are definitely all pure EO - there is not a chance of them being crosses, because I only had gorria cockerals, and the four mums were locked in with the roo. Doesn't mean the birds are good - just that they aren't crosses.

I hatched out about 120 eo's this year - I've kept 3 cockerals and 8 pullets. Of the whole 120, I have one bird that seems to have shed the black breast (a cockeral - one of Charlie's lads, Kathy!) Some of my cull cockerals had solid black breasts (currently residing in my freezer), some had less black than the two Brian is showing. The three I kept have less black. All of my "keeper" girls have black smut on their backs and wings, and many on their breast. I focused more on type this year, with colour second.


Will try and put up some pics of my keeper birds later - but I've had to cull like crazy to try and get something reasonable for breeding next year. Brian, I've been waiting for my cockerals to grow up a bit before choosing the lucky fellas that get to move in with the girls. One of this year's dad's threw a son that looks almost identical (they are the 2 lads that went to the Colwyn show). After I decide who the lucky guys are, if my second string turns out to be better than your two, you would be welcome to have one of them.

More on the weekend when I have time! =D


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#18 2013-12-12 01:44:48

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: What do I have and what should I do

Lisa, I have a grandma gorria EO hen that I can see the first 2 hens of Brian's have a similar type and color to. She was likely mom to some of Susan's gorria so grandma to some of yours. Her type is different than some of my other EOs, shorter legs and body more square but she has produced some nice offspring and was still laying 6 eggs a week last spring at the age of 4. As for the lighter colored girls that look more like a marraduna color without the barring, I get those too. I think they are the Blondie version of the Gorria.

Here are a picture of the grandma hen and her best son hatched this year:
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/Euskal%20oiloa/e2d8770a825cad1ae8eac1ef4e57af3c.jpg
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac252/sulzmi/Euskal%20oiloa/0e783eedd4216c23bc04f3dc1fcf2aec.jpg

So Brian you have pure bred gorria EOs that are from Lisa. As she hatched 120 chicks and obviously tried to keep the best ~ 10% for her own breeding that could still mean you have some decent birds to work from. It may still be worth shopping for a few more but you won't find the perfect EO in North America to take a picture of let alone buy. They are a work in progress as everyone has stated. Most of us enjoy them for their wonderful personality and appreciate their egg and meat production qualities. Getting them uniform and breeding true to a standard will take some time but progress has already been made.

M&K, I would like more detail on the three color varieities you believe we're brought to Canada (gorria, marraduna and ??) and why you think that would result in the mottling...another thread perhaps.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#19 2013-12-12 03:23:38

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: What do I have and what should I do

I'd love to ask the original importer from Preservation Genetique. Were the EOs to be only Maradunas?  Well, clearly not.  We have Gorria and Maraduna and the occasional blondies. Then there seems to be a number of black and whites.

I believe the third is Zillera.  We've seen close to those in some breeding programs.  we haven't seen Beltza or the necked necks reported anywhere in N.A.  I've been researching the dominance of the Mille  Fleur and what was required to create it in the Leg horns, cochins, d'Uccles and such breeds that accept Milles.


Yes PG, another whole thread lines in the answer there!  It has to do with talking to lots of breeders of non EOs at the shows, looking at the lack of Mille Fleurs in Spain, and researching the colour genetics.  I've been doing some trials on it to test my beliefs and have read back on the old quotes on the forum from over the years too to piece it all together.

Like Lisa, this is a crazy time of year for me but I will try to post when things quiet down.  Or, like offering up my idea for the Mille Fleur SOP as it's own strand, maybe I won''t.  Sometimes I feel like I don't have enough stamps on my EO passport so to speak, to be taken seriously so why share? 

hmm...maybe that is just this awful flu talking, makes me sensitive

Did I ever tell you that some very experienced breeders out there that don't like EOs enough to breed them are still willing to lend their 20 plus years experience to the project through sharing their experience and knowledge of the complexity of breeding colours? I've  put up with a lot of ribbing from some of them every time we talk just to learn a bit more. 



poplar girl wrote:

Lisa, I have a grandma gorria EO hen that I can see the first 2 gens of Brian's have a similar type and color to. She was likely mom to some of Susan's gorria so grandma to some of yours. Her type is different than some of my other EOs, shorter legs and body more square but she has produced some nice offspring and was still laying 6 eggs a week last spring at the age of 4. As for the lighter colored girls that look more like a marraduna color without the barring, I get those too. I think they are the Blondie version of the Gorria.

Here are a picture of the grandma hen and her best son hatched this year:
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac25 … 57af3c.jpg
http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac25 … cf2aec.jpg

So Brian you have pure bred gorria EOs that are from Lisa. As she hatched 120 chicks and obviously tried to keep the best ~ 10% for her own breeding that could still mean you have some decent birds to work from. It may still be worth shopping for a few more but you won't find the perfect EO in North America to take a picture of let alone buy. They are a work in progress as everyone has stated. Most of us enjoy them for their wonderful personality and appreciate their egg and meat production qualities. Getting them uniform and breeding true to a standard will take some time but progress has already been made.

M&K, I would like more detail on the three color varieities you believe we're brought to Canada (gorria, marraduna and ??) and why you think that would result in the mottling...another thread perhaps.


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#20 2013-12-12 13:14:07

hollowridge
Member
From: Lunenburg, County, Nova Scotia
Registered: 2013-03-25
Posts: 259

Re: What do I have and what should I do

Wow, I love the history lesson I got this morning. :jumping:

A very productive coffee session.  :surfing:  Don't have the gorria's but the marriduna's and we are try to figure the whole true breed color out.  So what I learned today is:
WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT, SOME OF US JUST HAVE BETTER WAYS TO PADDLE IT  !! 

This was a very uplifting topic for me. :thumbs:

Thanks everyone.

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#21 2013-12-18 01:14:57

riverbendfarm
Member
From: Baker Settlement, Nova Scotia
Registered: 2012-05-01
Posts: 214
Website

Re: What do I have and what should I do

OK am I the only one seeing the potential for Beltza in the Gorrias with way too much black? Has anyone thought of breeding out the red and shooting for the blackest of birds just to see what comes? Remember that all of the color varieties were teased out of basically barnyard stock and before the 80's they were not even standardized at all. The thing is to look at what you have and decide on the direction you wish to go. Years in the making, but hey that's what hobbyists do isn't it? I'm currently setting up my first BIG Marraduna hatch of the year. I left all of my hens in the breeding pen with my best rooster, because I was loathe to cull still having only a few birds. I plan to hatch my socks off then sell the culls this summer at point of lay.

If I was the boy calling the shots I'd put Hen #1 with Roo #1 and then select their blackest offspring and Gorrias be damned lol!


No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.
~Heraclitus

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