Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

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#1 2013-11-29 00:37:20

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

As we move along with EOs I think we have learned a lot and have also made some great progress understanding EOs, sharing them with other and increasing the population as well as coming up with a Draft Standard of Perfection for the two varieties that are in North America and starting to breed and select for more uniform birds with those traits.

Attending the Alberta show this weekend and watching and talking to the judges it became clear that we have made some good progress so far but we also have a ways to go if we wish to have EOs recognized by the APA. The APA in alot of ways is an old fashioned club, its actually the oldest breed club in North America. If we want EOs to gain respect and acceptance from the APA we will need to prove we deserve it and perhaps play by their rules. So it again causes me to question, what is the best way to move forward?

I understand that everyone's interest in EOs is not the same. I will start to post the survey results very shortly and they definately show how diverse our reasons for owning EOs are as well as how new many people are to this breed.there were however a good portion of people who said "yes" they would participate in working to have the breed recognized by the APA. I actually responded "maybe" to that question. I am interested but I lack knowledge and experience with poultry showing and breeding. I am willing to learn and contribute but it can't be in isolation or especially without assurance that we are headed in a united direction.

Please read HapplessRunners comments as posted on BYC below. Please think about what he has suggested as well as some of the comments I've made.

The thought that we require a Breed Association for EOs in North America is not new. I remember asking this question of our EOCF forum members a couple years ago and it was a point of discussion more recently in the moderator's lounge.

HaplessRunner wrote:

In a PM reply to Poplar Girl, I noted an area for which the EO community can pull together to advance the goal for APA certification.  That area is listed below.

With respect to EOs, the major element that I see missing when I compare the efforts with EOs versus the cream legbars is that I do not see a national/international club coordinating the efforts and providing a central focus for getting the APA approval.  That is not to say that there are not many good people making extraordinary efforts because that is indeed not the case.  There are many folks, including you who have made significant efforts toward this goal.

From what Paul Gilroy, APA judge, indicated in his conversation with me, the draft standard for EOs is in pretty good shape.  I have no basis to know one way or another but the comment is appreciated.  He had an additional comment on the cream legbar standard that was not made on the EO standard.

In working with the cream legbars, we have established a national club and have held discussions with Walt Leonard, APA judge in California. The club has provided a focal point for coordinated efforts to standardize the SOP, the breed in North America, and position us for the eventual APA application.  We intend to encourage our members to show our chickens for both advertising and educating the judges while building our case for APA approval.

Since the EO community already spans the USA and Canada, I would recommend the founding of an international or north american euskal oiloa club to further build the community and breeder support analogous to what we are doing with the cream legbars.  Since EOs have been in North America much longer than the cream legbars, the club should build some members relatively quickly.  Likewise, the EO community already has a number of established breeders.  The establishment of a club format also allows for distribution of work.  Rather, than the burden falling so heavily on the few, it can more reasonably be apportioned to many in more manageable chunks.

Submitted respectfully for your consideration.

Where do we want to take things from here? If we want this breed recognized it will take effort and commitment from a number of people. If we (meaning active EO Forum members) don't go that route we need to accept someone else may.

I will start to post results of the 2013 survey this weekend. Those results are ENCOURAGING and show EOs have a firm place in many backyard flocks in North America and interest is growing.

Think about what you guys want...I think we, or at least I, am at a fork in the road and need to pick a direction....


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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2013-11-29 00:37:20

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#2 2013-11-29 01:53:48

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Wow. Lots of thinking to do PG. I was planning to take a back seat for the next couple of years, but I see what you are saying. Like I say, need to think on the commitment part for a bit. Had no plans of losing my flock (was going to breed for myself for the next few years) but if the time is now.....

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#3 2013-11-29 02:06:45

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

I totally understand you have a lot on your plate Susan. And I know my post is a heavy one. Thank you for taking the time to read such a long post, i am glad it makes some sense. Looking forward to your thoughts.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#4 2013-11-29 03:16:21

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

PG,

Thanks for re-opening this controversial topic. Brave woman! =D

I understand what you mean about eo's appealing to different people for different reasons - I know some people who now own a few eo's and love them - as layers, companions and entertainment. They really ARE lovely birds.

But I LIKE to show, and I would like to see our birds moving toward APA acceptance in 5 or 6 years (or however long it takes). I am uncertain, but think that one of the expectations is that at least 50% of the offspring thrown by a "recognized breed" actually looks the way it is supposed to. I am doing fairly well with my conformation (sounds like you are too from your show posting comments), but my colours are still pretty random. I'm not sure how many generations it takes to get the colours predictable. Does anybody have a guess?

I would be totally willing to help with a breed club, but have no idea how to go about it! I met Grant Armstrong last weekend at the Ontario Poultry Breeders show - he is the Canada rep for the Serama club (another newish breed that just got accepted into the standard recently). Maybe I could ask him what he knows?

Truthfully, I would rather see our group put something officialish together (if it's necessary) given all of our dedication and good work than have another group start without our background. I have faith in us!

So I'm willing, but clueless. =D  Gotta start somewhere.

Just one girl's opinion - not trying to influence anybody else's thinking.


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#5 2013-11-29 03:43:59

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Lisa that's what I want too, you expressed yourself wonderfully. We DO have a good thing going here with a group of really awesome people and we've made some good progress. It seems it's time to take things to the next level and I SO want this group to be the one to do it! But its not something one or two people can do alone, it would need to be a group effort. So please ask Grant Armstong how to go about a breed club. I have no idea either but how hard can it be?

:happycrowd" :EO: but their owners are more awesome.

Trying not to get too excited because we need more people if we want to go ahead with this but I was sad and now I'm hopeful...


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#6 2013-11-29 13:45:59

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

I'll weigh in after the holiday...

just

gotta

hold

on!

:shock: :turkey: :roadtrip:

:wine::wine:

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#7 2013-11-29 14:52:07

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Will do MD. Happy :turkey: day to you and yours :wine:


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#8 2013-11-29 18:03:24

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

:goodthread:  Lisa, I really appreciate what you wrote.  I hope you write professionally, you have a lovely way of phrasing things.  Haplessrunner has a point.  I think that everyone should continue doing what they love with their EOS.

AND those of us in this forum keen on getting EOs into the APA  should figure out how to start the International Euskal Oiloa Club.  We invite ALL EO lovers who wish to join to join.  This club would be the official group focused on the APA goals.  It would have elected leadership...all the stuff the other breed clubs have.

I would be proud to be involved in that club.  I would still continue to be involved here.  After all  :EO:  and so are EO people.

Even though Micah and I won Reserve Continental at the OPG last weekend, we are VERY new to showing and it still makes me nervous.  Seeing friends like Lisa is helping and I think I will eventually like showing.

To help me grow as a breeder, this summer I am planning to begin the long process of studying, tests and volunteer work to become an APA judge.

I know we will start with Maraduna colour.  When the Marans club got BCMs accepted to the APA they were ready to fairly quickly follow with the French Wheatan Marans.  In my super positive moments I see that happenning for us with Maraduna first and then Gorria. 

I stubbornly refuse to ever give up Mille Fleur EOs being one of the official APA colours for EOS  (:love: them) but I see this as a 10 year project.  I realize they weren't a colour in Spain but they are here. 

Does that answer your question PG?


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#9 2013-11-29 18:38:22

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

You bet it answers my question M&K. And I am excited about how clearly you are able to outline where you believe we need to go. Most of my thoughts are in alignment with yours (and Lisa's). The forum is and will remain a great place for enjoying and learning about EOs but we need a venue to move along the APA recognition of the breed and I think a breed club is likely the best way. WOW on your aspirations to become an APA judge :applause:

I started to look into what it might take to establish a North American Basque Breed Club earlier this morning. I visited the Cream Legbar Club website as well as went to the Federal and some of the Provincial pages on Not For Profit Societies and what it takes to set one up. It's a big undertaking and there will be lots to learn but I also believe it's the right direction to take from here.

I am pretty new to most aspects of this just like you are M&K. Breeding poultry, showing poultry, establishing a new society; almost all of it relatively new to me. But I am enjoying it so far and I also love EOs and the group of people who have consistently been working together on this forum so far. I want to take it to the next level with THIS group if we have the critical mass to do so! Hopefully we do.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#10 2013-11-29 22:47:32

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Well I don't have too much to add but if I can help in some small way count me in.  I am NOT into showing so I will not be of much help in that area.  I breed EO's more for my own enjoyment and am working my way to getting them towards the SOP, so I have the same goals as most on here.  The genetic part of EO's I admit am dumb as dirt so like I said if my meager assistance can be used I will do what I can :huh:

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#11 2013-11-30 01:02:28

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

There are lots of ways to be of significant assistance without being into showing Paula. We need good birds to show and your flock and breeding efforts are much appreciated and valued :thumbs:


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#12 2013-11-30 04:46:43

Helliefant
Member
From: Arthur, Ontario
Registered: 2011-08-17
Posts: 112

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

So far from what I am reading, there is interest in a "club" but no-one has really any idea how to start one? The good thing is that most of the replies have been from people in a certain area...including me! Chance to form a club...I'm in!!!
That may be a good way to start it.
PG, MD and Susan..how far away from each other are you?
FRF, MK, Lisa and myself are fairly close to each other.
Are we talking website, blog, newspaper articles? A name! " The EO breeders Club of North America" with branches in ( enter provinces) and (enter States ) etc....Yee haw! Mind is working overtime!
Time for bed...lol
:group talking:

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#13 2013-11-30 13:46:18

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Yes, Hellifant it seems we are starting to have a reasonable sized group agree that an EO breed club is needed. As M&K said the objective of the club (I like the word association better than club but that's me) would be to gain APA recognition of EOs. It would need to cover North America and have a name, paid membership, bylaws and a board (president, VP, secretry, treasurer, and directors) elected. I think a website would be important to build a little ways down the road.

We certainly haven't had anyone come forward and say they know everything about starting and running a club but after a little reading yesterday to be honest I don't think it will be that difficult. Each Province has an application you can fill out with a fee associated with it to start a new Society, we would need to pick one Province to register in and follow a few rules of that Province but the club can have members from anywhere. I think we would also want to incorporate to limit liability of individuals. This is assuming we base the club in Canada, it could also be based in the US but I beleive it will likely be Canada if it's a spinoff group from this forum that initiates it.

In Alberta you need to have a physical address on file and send in a report every year in your anniversary month. You also need to have an AGM which the Society Act says must be hosted in Alberta. I actually called the corporate registry yesterday and asked if that means people need to physically be together and in Alberta. She said no, as long as the club bylaws state how meetings will be conducted and the members agree then people don't have to actually physically be together for any meetings including the AGM. Eventually when they update the Society Act this will be changed. So we could use computers and a program like join.me for meetings as an example.

Although it may make sense to set up the club in Ontario if that's where the biggest single group of members will be located i hope we will set up the club bylaws in such a way to allow active members from anywhere in Canada and the US. As much as its great that you folks in Ontario are fortunate enough to be able to get together a few times a year in person and you probably will, for many people, myself included, we are too isolated to do that. Island Girl is on Vancouver Island, I'm in Alberta, Susan is 6 hours from me in Saskatoon... The people who responded "yes" they want to be part of having the breed recognized or even "maybe" are spread all accross North America so i hope we would want to find a way to bridge that gap with a club. When it comes time for the Breed Qualifying Meet in a few years (maybe 5 or 6) at that time we will need to carefully pick the location and as many breeders as possible will need to be able to attend likely some from quite a distance away and possibly some may need to cross the boarder but aside from that event I hope we can do things in a way that encourages people to be an active part of the club even if they are not located near other EO breeders.

Check out the Cream Legbar Club website as an example, I really like a lot of what they have done. Its a pretty modern approach as they actually say they will hold their meeting using join.me in their handbook. The only difference is i think we would for sure want to make the club both Canada and US and they focused only on the US. http://www.creamlegbarclub.com/


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#14 2013-11-30 13:50:51

Prairie Chick
Member
From: Qu'Appelle Saskatchewan
Registered: 2012-03-27
Posts: 261

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

I am with Paula...what she said =D


Chickens:  EO's, BLRW, Ameracauna's (blue/black/splash also Lavender) and lavender D'Uccles
Waterfowl: Super dewlap Africans, Seb's, American Blue Geese, Muscovies,
also guinea fowl and peafowl

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#15 2013-11-30 14:56:43

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Well this is so much fun! =D

Regarding the name - my thoughts (spinning out of control in an overly forward direction!)
- needs to be "North America" if we are aiming for APA SOP recognition, and will be basing at least a fair part of the work from Canada.
- needs to be easy to spell for website address - so Basque rather than Euskal oiloa - and EO is not clear enough
- Association, club, breeders in the title - it's all good to me, as long as it's us!

If we think we might want to do this, it might be helpful to decide what we want to call it - and I'll grab us a few web addresses - just to hold them for the future.  (DH taught me how to do that) =D

... and I agree PG, the Cream Legbar club site is nicely laid out, and very welcoming.

Last edited by Lisa (2013-11-30 14:58:58)


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#16 2013-11-30 15:11:24

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Oh good points Lisa.

I like the idea of North American in the title. And Basque.
Maybe the North American Basque Breed Association? NABBA would be that acronym, a good acronym can help.
Or North American Basque Breed Club would be NABBC.

Web addresses...see what's available but maybe tie up if we can:
www.basquebreedassociation.com and .ca
www.basquebreedclub.com and .ca
www.euskaloiloabreedassociation.com and .ca
www.euskaloiloabreedclub.com and .ca

Just my (also spinning forward quickly) suggestions...


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#17 2013-11-30 15:13:51

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Oh should also try to tie up similar email accounts through gmail or something maybe?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#18 2013-11-30 15:28:37

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

WOW!!!!  :excited:  Crazy excited over here!  I am a quick reader.  I will visit recognized club sites and review bylaws and constitutions and summarize what is similar to all and present it to you.  Would that help? 

Do we agree on the name?  Who will  register the club and site? Which province?  Does it matter if it will be a North American wide club? Do we contact the APA to see if we can be on their association links page if we aren't in the APA standard yet?

Deep breath!  Don't let my excitement overwhelm you!  PG, send me a private note if I am getting out of control!


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#19 2013-11-30 16:00:17

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

I think excitement is good. But I wonder at what point (if at all) we need to pull this discussion offline from the forum? I mean, is it okay to start to go into details right on the forum like we have? It might be the best place for now but I thought it was worth asking the question...

And that leads to the next question...how DO we decide on a name and a province to register in? How should we make decisions in general prior to the association being formed? I want to move quickly but I also want to make sure we allow opportunity for those who want to be part of this to weigh in. I know MD is busy with American Thanksgiving this weekend and wanted to share his thoughts. We do still need a few more people to say "yes, I'm in!" to make this work and even to fill the elected positions right off the start.

To be honest the place we register is not critical as long as the rules for a society in that province suit our needs. Ontario seems logical with the group out there but I think Alberta is the least expensive to register in and I am pretty sure the Society Act rules would work for what we have in mind. The only thing with Alberta I am not sure of is if the address on file needs to be in Alberta or not and if it needs to be a physical address vs a PO box. I can try to find time to look into Ontario in comparison to Alberta and let everyone know what if find...

M&K research is good for sure at this point so I think go ahead. As for contacting the APA I think that will be a later step most likely although I can indicate to Walt Leonard when I send him our draft SOP of our intent to establish a breed club and see if he has any advice.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#20 2013-11-30 16:28:51

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Well we are in democratic countries, I think a lot of the stuff could be decided through voting!  maybe invite all interested to attend an online chat or group phone call to make the first big decisions?


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#21 2013-11-30 16:50:44

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

That's a good suggestion. We can pick a time and means of communicating well ahead and then those who want to have a say can join. Suggestions for timing and a means of communication?

I just did some reading on registering in Ontario. It falls under the Not-for-Profit Corporations Act which is currently in the final stages of being amended so is bit between acts right now.

Here are some links for further reading:
http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/Pages/N … rofit.aspx
http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/Pages/onca6.aspx
http://www.ontario.ca/serviceontario
http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.c … ook_EN.pdf

The only items that worry me right off the bat are:
- I think the fees to register are pretty high in Ontario.
- a phone call to clarify whether members can "attend" the AGM through means other than being physically present in Ontario as you can in Alberta would be worth making.
- also I think the new act will remove some of the requirements for an outside audit of the financial records but it would be good to be sure. In Alberta I know the audit requirements are not hard to meet.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#22 2013-11-30 23:28:34

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Another interesting website from a group who recently did what we are thinking of doing....

http://www.americanseramaassociation.org


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#23 2013-11-30 23:31:43

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Like the name " NABBA" PG :thumbs:

Last edited by Flat Rock Farm (2013-12-01 01:46:50)

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#24 2013-12-01 00:59:48

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

I have some experience with associations but not with starting one.  What an association needs is a great secretary and volunteer directors.  I don't see why an association should be bound to a province.  We have a Ontario Brown Swiss Association and a Canadian Brown Swiss Association.  I'm on the Ontario board of directors and we do most our communication through e-mail.  We meet about 3 times a year plus the AGM.  Meetings can be as simple as getting together at the F&F spring and fall.  In the past our club has done meetings through a conference call but that was way to costly.  The secretary would have to do minutes which have to be sent out to the members.  You could always ask the crowd from the Canadian Heritage Breeds how they went about it. 
A website we already have in this one here.  It can be expanded on.


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#25 2013-12-01 01:55:03

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Where do we want to go with the EO breed from here?

Gubi. I am as of last weekend a director for Canadian Heritage Breeds and am looking forward to being a part of that group's efforts. At the AGM last weekend there were 14 (or maybe it was 16) people present. I am told there are about 200 members of that organization so that's a pretty lousy turn out. One of the things we hope to do over the next year is engage the members across Canada more. To do that I think there needs to be more regular correspondence as well as a way for members across the country to participate and fell a part of things without the need to be physically present.

I am currently looking into means of getting groups together remotely both with the CHB and our EO club in mind. Not sure if visual is needed or if maybe a conference call is enough but there has to be ways in this modern age. Of course cost is a huge factor but there has to be a way.

If on the other hand the folks in Ontario decide you have enough of a group to do things locally that would be another option for you. If that's the decision made I would be disappointed not to be able to participate but I would understand your reasons for doing things that way as it would certainly simplfy some things. I'm not sure I would be comfortable being a member of a group where there is no ability to really have a say in decisions or have a voice but I will of course wait to see what the groupe decides before making any decisions.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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