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#26 2011-08-29 14:00:38

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Genetics study group???

It is a new copy and it is paperback. Just got confirmation from him.


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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2011-08-29 14:00:38

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#27 2011-08-29 15:14:21

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Genetics study group???

Oh my that is a lot of $ but it does  sound like a good book. Is there any way to do this cheaper ( & relatively legal :P ) scan & post a chapter at a time/month or something like that? Just wondering out loud here....

XOX Monika

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#28 2011-08-29 15:30:12

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

Island Girl wrote:

Oh my that is a lot of $ but it does  sound like a good book. Is there any way to do this cheaper ( & relatively legal :P ) scan & post a chapter at a time/month or something like that? Just wondering out loud here....

XOX Monika

I was thinking the same thing but I don't know if we'd get in trouble doing it that way. If its for learning purposes then I don't think we could? But I don't know..

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#29 2011-08-29 15:33:23

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Genetics study group???

I sure wouldn't want anyone to get into trouble over it, we'll have to get someone who knows how to check into these things to do so. Anyone????

XOX Monika

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#30 2011-08-30 00:11:14

ipf
Member
From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: Genetics study group???

It is, I know, an excellent book, by two highly competent people.

Do keep in mind that there is MUCH more to genetics than colour and colour patterns. Genetics influences pretty much everything, including temperament, general vigour, fertility, hatchability, growth rate, adult size, fertility, disease resistance, and longevity. 

Another good (and affordable) book is Hutt's "Genetics of the Fowl". Although it's old, almost none of it is out of date, and there's a huge amount of useful info there. It's available from Amazon ( http://www.amazon.com/Genetics-Fowl-Cla … 0972177035 ) or direct from the re-publisher, Norton Creek Press ( http://www.nortoncreekpress.com/ ), which also reprints other old poultry classics.

The modern bible is pretty much Crawford's "Poultry Breeding and Genetics", but that's pretty much overkill; it's highly technical. It's very hard to get, and REALLY expensive. Most of it is available on google books.

I have these two, and refer to them often.

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#31 2011-08-30 00:23:52

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Genetics study group???

I do believe I will be ordering "Genetics of the Fowl". Not too bad a price at about $45 Canadian. And i may splurge and order the book Skyline suggested. I also want Crawford's book but maybe a bit much right now.

At $45 would everyone be able to afford "Genetics of the Fowl" as our textbook of choice?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#32 2011-08-30 03:37:48

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Genetics study group???

I can justify $45 more than the other one for now, maybe the more expensive one will go on the Christmas list.

XOX Monika

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#33 2011-08-30 04:52:55

3riverschick
Member
From: Ligonier, in Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2011-08-11
Posts: 64
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

Hi,
Just a thought. Genetics Of The Fowl is available free online. Can read it at Cornell's Library in the CORE .
http://chla.library.cornell.edu/
  "The Core Historical Literature of Agriculture (CHLA) is a core electronic collection of agricultural texts published between the early nineteenth century and the middle to late twentieth century. Full-text materials cover agricultural economics, agricultural engineering, animal science, crops and their protection, food science,forestry, human nutrition, rural sociology, and soil science. Scholars have selected the titles in this collection for their historical importance. Their evaluations and 4,500 core titles are detailed in the seven volume series The Literature of the Agricultural Sciences, Wallace C. Olsen, series editor.  Current online holdings:   Pages: 1,067,606 Books: 2,047 (2,116 Volumes) Journals: 26 (764 Volumes)"
An excellent resource, they have put  a lot of books from the Rice Poultry Collection online.  Genetics Of The Fowl can be found here:
http://tinyurl.com/3vhs63b
Best Regards,
Karen Tewart                             :EO:

Last edited by 3riverschick (2011-08-30 05:01:24)


Karen Tewart
"The present is best served when we remember the past."

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#34 2011-08-30 11:05:21

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Genetics study group???

Well there you go! I still plan to order a copy but since it can be obtained for free everyone will be able to participate! That's a great find 3riverchick!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#35 2011-08-30 13:31:17

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Genetics study group???

I'm going to talk to Dr. Crawford and see what he recommends. I will have a look at his library if I go over to his place and see what he has for books.

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#36 2011-08-30 15:18:03

ipf
Member
From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: Genetics study group???

Wow. You KNOW Crawford? I'm impressed!
Also, great reminder about the Cornell library series! I would assume they'll get Crawford's book in there eventually. . . it's been out of print for quite a while. I finally got my copy through AbeBooks, but it was close to $200.

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#37 2011-08-30 15:48:52

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Genetics study group???

I don't know him yet, but a friend does so I am going to ask him to introduce us. :cheer:

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#38 2011-08-30 18:41:21

JaerhonChanteclerEuskies
Member
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 154

Re: Genetics study group???

Susan that sounds like a good idea to get Dr. Crawford helping us.


Mainly raising Norwegian  Jaerhorn’s, Partridge  Chantecler’s, White Chantecler’s,  Euskal Oiloas, Ameraucana’s, Wheaten Maran’s, Barred Rock Cochin’s, White Silkie’s , Saxony Ducks, Rouen Clair ducks, Australian Spotted Ducks Lavender Guinea Fowl, Welsh Mountain Sheep, Cashmere Goats and Texas Longhorn Cattle.

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#39 2011-08-31 00:54:21

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

Wow this is great, how exciting an promising for the breed.    I will order the Genetics of the Fowl too, to start.

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#40 2011-09-02 18:37:39

ipf
Member
From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: Genetics study group???

So, what will this group do? Do people want to raise specific questions, general issues, or. . . ? Do you want to start with basic topics/concepts, like chromosomes, genes, alleles, linkage, autosomal vs sex-linked? Dominant, recessive, incompletely dominant, genes? Multi-gene vs single gene traits? Epistasis? Or maybe everyone is fully conversant with these?

Oh. . . I see I'm too impatient, up there it says let's get the group going sometime in the winter, after October.

One thing. I saw somewhere in a post a long list of old publications on poultry genetics, available on-line. While much of the most useful work was done in the 30s-50s, there were things reported back then that have since been shown to be untrue, so do take old pubs with a small grain of salt until you verify the findings.

Having said that I was reading Hutt and Crawford last night, and am amazed again at what a good scientist Hutt was; he's very careful to distinguish between demonstrated fact and partly supported theory (i.e. with some, but not conclusive evidence). I stand by my recommendation of Hutt's book. The only bad thing, perhaps, is that it oesn't include the basics of genetics (the stuff listed in the first para above). I'll look for something with that.

Also, even though you can get all of Hutt (and much of Crawford) on-line, I for one like to sit in a comfy chair with a book on my lap, after being at my comp all day. Hutt is well worth the $45 (I guess you could download to a kindle, but it deosn't seem quite the same, somehow.)

Last edited by ipf (2011-09-02 18:38:28)

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#41 2011-09-02 23:46:08

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Genetics study group???

I agree ipf. To hold a treasured book and read it over and over again is something I love. There is something very special about a book. I'm going to look into getting Hutt's as well as a few others mentioned here.

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#42 2011-09-03 03:08:38

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Genetics study group???

We should perhaps try to get a feel for where everyone is starting ipf. For me with a degree in agriculture and some experience with crop breeding I don't need too much of a discussion on the basics. That said, one or two sessions to refresh the important concepts would not hurt.

I have ordered Hutt. But amazon.ca is out od stock, waiting for a delivery estimate. I may soon order from an alternate source. I also like to have a book in my hands.

I think a good textbook should be the basis at least to start. But recent publications that add to that would also be important. I think if we can bring it all back to personal experience or potential impacts on the EO (bring it home so to speak) that will help keep people engaged. Maybe we could allow members to post specific questions they would like to see answered and ensure those questions will be addressed as we go along.

I think the format is also still a bit undecided. Chatters (no idea personally how that works). Or a post that we add to as the week goes on or ???

I know I am very excited. We should pick a firm start date, format and required references very shortly. Thoughts everyone? Hutt as the textbook?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#43 2011-09-03 14:40:24

ipf
Member
From: Salt Spring Island, BC, Canada
Registered: 2011-08-29
Posts: 168

Re: Genetics study group???

One component should be specific questions, definitely! IMO that's how many adults learn best.

Recent pubs of the scientific kind can be fascinating - have you guys seen the 2008 paper "Identification of the Yellow Skin Gene Reveals a Hybrid Origin of the Domestic Chicken"? For a long time folks (including Darwin and Hutt, although Hutt at least expressed doubt) believed that there was a single species ancestor to all domestic chooks, i.e. Gallus gallus, the red junglefowl. This research shows conclusively that early hybridisation with Gallus sonneratii, grey junglefowl, was the source of the yellow skin gene.

I got my copy of Hutt directly from Norton Ck Press ( http://www.nortoncreekpress.com/ ) in Oregon. It's more of a resource book than a text, however, if you think of a text as "teaching", and a resource as enabling you to teach yourself, by providing facts.

Last edited by ipf (2011-09-03 14:41:01)

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#44 2011-09-06 00:00:36

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Genetics study group???

Just wanted t make sure everyone can still find this thread! I've moved it to its own section that Claire just added :)

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#45 2011-09-06 07:21:13

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

I found it :-)

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#46 2011-09-11 13:16:32

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Genetics study group???

So has anyone made or found an electronic copy of "Genetics of the Fowl"  that can be downloaded or saved to a local file?


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#47 2011-09-12 04:06:10

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Genetics study group???

Young Heritage wrote:

So has anyone made or found an electronic copy of "Genetics of the Fowl"  that can be downloaded or saved to a local file?

If anyone is interested in one PM me.


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#48 2011-09-12 05:14:01

3riverschick
Member
From: Ligonier, in Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2011-08-11
Posts: 64
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

Young Heritage wrote:

So has anyone made or found an electronic copy of "Genetics of the Fowl"  that can be downloaded or saved to a local file?

===========
See message #33. I can be downloaded from there, I think.
Best,


Karen Tewart
"The present is best served when we remember the past."

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#49 2011-09-12 05:49:55

3riverschick
Member
From: Ligonier, in Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2011-08-11
Posts: 64
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

Genetics expert idf,
I  have a question and can't find an answer. EO's have a round feather. I don't remember seeing a breed with round feathers that wasn't laced, penciled, mottled or spangled.
http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/u … tterns.gif  Is there something about round feathers that helps the bird hold its shape or protects it from the weather? Or? Why do EO's have round feathers?
Thanks for sharing,

                                                  :EO:

Last edited by 3riverschick (2011-09-12 06:11:43)


Karen Tewart
"The present is best served when we remember the past."

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#50 2011-09-12 10:25:18

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Genetics study group???

3riverschick wrote:

Young Heritage wrote:

So has anyone made or found an electronic copy of "Genetics of the Fowl"  that can be downloaded or saved to a local file?

===========
See message #33. I can be downloaded from there, I think.
Best,

It can be on a page by page basis. Did not find a way to download the entire book to file without going through all 590 pages and save them to a file seperatly. I spent the time yesterday doing so and now have a downloadable copy. Thanks


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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