Euskal Oiloa Chicken Forum

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#1 2011-08-25 15:30:54

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Genetics study group???

Am realizing from watching the posts that I know nothing about chicken genetics, but would like to. Wondering two things - does anyone have some recommendations for good books, starting from "complete rookie"? Also, does anyone want to do a bit of a study group (one chapter a week or something)? Starting sometime in the winter when things slow down?


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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2011-08-25 15:30:54

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#2 2011-08-26 00:33:22

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Genetics study group???

Oh Lisa that is an AMAZING idea! I would be very interested in being part of a winter study group on genetics with EOs in mind!! :jumping: we could pick a couple books and review a chapter or maybe sometimes a scientific paper each week like you said.

It would be really neat to have someone fairly knowledgeable willing to tutor a bit if we could find them.

Ideas on how to "talk" about what we learn online?? Maybe we could start posting "nuggets" and discussing them from that weeks assignment as we learn??


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#3 2011-08-26 00:44:35

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

I'm in..... :thumbs:  I can set up the chat like on ACE (Or I am pretty sure I can), but with my horrific typing , I'll just be reading what others write, I'm too slow to join in reasonably.  I wouldn't be ready til the snow flies....

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#4 2011-08-26 03:34:55

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Genetics study group???

ooooooo, I like it! Not so sure I could make heads or tails of genetics but I can try. :P

XOX Monika

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#5 2011-08-28 01:57:59

Lisa
Member
From: near Arthur, Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2011-07-05
Posts: 649

Re: Genetics study group???

Deal Ladies! We'll figure out the logistics 'round about October? After Thanksgiving?

Now how do we find books/papers we want to review? Somebody we know must know what we can start with....


When all else fails, go spend time with your chickens. :)

Pens are currently filled with Red Cuckoo (Marraduna) and Red Basque (Gorria) breeders, Spitz, and Seramas.

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#6 2011-08-28 02:05:18

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Genetics study group???

There is a lady on WCPS who I believe is a geneticist or at least very smart about genetics, she is lives on Salt Spring Island, maybe I should invite her to this forum?? Maybe she could direct us in regards to literature etc?? I believe she left ACE due to her frustration at not being able to give her opinions freely. Please don't quote me on that, not sure exactly of her reason for leaving! What do you think?

XOX Monika

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#7 2011-08-28 02:12:35

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Genetics study group???

Island Girl wrote:

There is a lady on WCPS who I believe is a geneticist or at least very smart about genetics, she is lives on Salt Spring Island, maybe I should invite her to this forum?? Maybe she could direct us in regards to literature etc?? I believe she left ACE due to her frustration at not being able to give her opinions freely. Please don't quote me on that, not sure exactly of her reason for leaving! What do you think?

XOX Monika

I believe ipf is the person you speak of. When I think about someone to help me learn ifp is the first to come to mind for me too! Her knowledge is amazing and she can explain things really well.

How best to go about asking?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#8 2011-08-28 02:21:26

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Genetics study group???

That is who I mean =D I would be happy to contact her and do the invite and then let her decide. Not that I know her personally but I value the things I have read from her and her opinion as well as her knowledge.

XOX Monika

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#9 2011-08-28 03:16:28

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Genetics study group???

Sure Monika, go for it. I think we would learn a huge amount more with a person like ipf to ensure we get things right.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#10 2011-08-28 03:30:37

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Genetics study group???

I love the idea, but can't say I'll commit for sure. It seems everything spins so fast lately, that I am afraid to commit and let someone down.  I did study genetics and molecular genetics in university at the undergrad level - still have my text books I think, but that was 15 years ago... Man I'm getting old. I found it to be a fairly easy subject to grasp, so I think all of you guys will do very well with it. I'll tentatively join in, but forgive me if I'm a bit off and on. I think ipf would be an awesome addition to the group!

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#11 2011-08-28 04:57:45

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

Sounds like an excellent idea everyone. Are guys allowed in the study group? Lol..
The perfect book to get is Genetics of Chicken Colours (The Basics) by Sigrid Van Dort-David Hancox
Its explains things as in making soups. Ill take out of context a little paragragh from the book so you'll see how easy it is to understand what they are trying to explain.
The colour of a chicken doesn't consist of just one factor but is the combined action of many genes. In certain combinations the presence or absence of diluters or enhancers will give variations to the colour variety. The colour of the chicken is best compared to the taste of soup. To make a soup,you first choose a basic ingredient, the broth.. It can be beef, chicken,herbs,mushroom or fish. The base determines a big part of the taste. The basis of chicken colours is determined by the e-alleles. The choice of the broth, 'e-allele', will determine how the other ingredients are gonna taste and look. There are ingredients, that give taste and colour to the soup, adding one, e.g. salt, has an effect on the others; sweetness is covered, or tastes differ. By adding tomatoes to vegetable soup, the soup is going to become red, and you would call it tomato vegetable soup, the soup is going to become red, and you would call it tomato vegetable soup regardless of the order in which you added the other ingredients. So you have made vegetable tomato soup.
The tomatoes cover the colour of both the broth, and the vegetables that are included, but the vegetables are still there, although the tomatoes heavily influence their taste. We can see the tomatoes as a dominant gene, and the vegetables as recessive genes. The effect on the vegetables is that their expression decreases or is changed (pieces of potato become orange intead of yellow white). Adding cream to the tomato soup will lighten the colour. The red becomes light orange but the vegetables keep their original colours. This compares with adding a colour-diluting gene that has an influence on the red colour (tomatoes), but not on the black (vegetables).

This is just a small example of how this book explains how basic genetics is explained. Great book but hard to get for some reason. Its well worth the money and will change your idea about chicken colour, among many other things.

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#12 2011-08-28 05:37:24

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Genetics study group???

Very interesting indeed! There may be hope of me being more than a listener, after all I can make darn good soup!! I have sent ipf a message and do hope she joins us. My next quest will be to see if I can find this book, great suggestion, thanks for posting the excerpt.

XOX Monika

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#13 2011-08-28 10:13:15

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Genetics study group???

I would also be interested if guys are allowed :lol:


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#14 2011-08-28 12:18:01

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Genetics study group???

Is there a reason we should think twice about allowing guys? Do the two of you know something about guys and genetics study groups I  am not aware of? :huh: With no basis for not allowing guys I vote we allow guys =D

Really looking forward to this! Do we need to start really basic for the first study session? Probably a good idea so we don't loose anyone before we get going. And perhaps pick a book or two that we will use for most of the sessions so everyone can get a copy. When might we start? November? Or December? January at the very latest.

3riverchick even suggested involving some basque chicken experts. I think that would be a great idea for later on in our study group if any are willing and language barriers can be over come.  It would help with some of the more in-depth questions directly related to EOs. Oh and we can show pictures of EOs that demonstrate certain variations in maybe.

Just thinking out loud.

Oh yeah, this is gonna be fun!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#15 2011-08-28 18:23:06

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

I think the more people with knowledge of the EO would be extremely beneficial.. Finding these people that are bilingual and willing to work with us will be the tough part, maybe? Still keeping fingers crossed considering I'm seeing the group growing really well. Maybe the word might spread about us devoted North Americans to someone. Either way I'm just glad we have everyone in this group sticking together and really enjoying the awesome EO's we do have.
:EO:

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#16 2011-08-28 19:36:40

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Genetics study group???

I have sent ipf an invitation with a link to the site!  =D

XOX Monika

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#17 2011-08-28 22:42:42

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd395/skylinepoultry/Snapbucket/e7d8dd4b-8ada-4b41-978c-20305bf22038.jpg
Here's what the book looks like if you are looking for it. Its the easiest book in the world to the introduction of poultry genetics. It gets pretty indepth too.

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#18 2011-08-29 01:08:08

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Genetics study group???

I found the site and emailed the person for purchasing from the USA. Hopefully it won't cost an arm and a leg.:thumbsup:

http://www.chickencolours.com/pagina4.html


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#19 2011-08-29 02:10:09

skeffling lavender farm
Administrator
From: Wiarton, ON, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 2720
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

Looks like a great book.  What great ideas.  November is not going to be a good month for me timewise, Dec is a better start time for me once the snow flies and we are battonned down for winter, but I can be around but not officially in if that is too late.   I am excited about it. What a great start!  I knew good things would come from getting everyone together!  :thumbs:

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#20 2011-08-29 02:47:22

Island Girl
Member
From: Qualicum Beach, Vancouver Isla
Registered: 2011-07-06
Posts: 1403

Re: Genetics study group???

I am always excited to learn stuff SLF. I am not convinced that I will be able to contribute too much in the way of genetic talk but I hope to hang around and learn what I can. And yes a little deeper into winter is better for me too.

XOX Monika

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#21 2011-08-29 02:54:34

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Genetics study group???

$130 for the book. Ouch :(


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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#22 2011-08-29 03:39:19

3riverschick
Member
From: Ligonier, in Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2011-08-11
Posts: 64
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

Young Heritage wrote:

$130 for the book. Ouch :(

==================
Did you just find the price or actually find one for sale? If you did find one for sale, is it hardback or softcover? From what I read the hardback is the 1st edition, rumored to be almost sold out worldwide. Sold out in US and Australia. The softcover was a 2nd printing rumored to be out in May of 2011, but no comfirmation so far on that. If you can find this book, sell your car and buy it. It's that important.  :thumbsup:  I paid 110. for mine to my doorstep from the Serama Club stock(they are sold otu). It's not for sale and if it was I wouldn't sell it for less than 200.oo.
Best,
:EO:

Last edited by 3riverschick (2011-08-29 03:39:47)


Karen Tewart
"The present is best served when we remember the past."

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#23 2011-08-29 04:09:24

Skylinepoultry
Member
From: Old Fort, Tennessee
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 222
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

If you plan on really wanting to know basic genetics this is the book to get. Its very thought out in terms just about anyone can understand. Didn't realize it was this rare to find though. I guess I got lucky getting my hardcopy. I can look around and see if anyone has got it for sale if anyone is really wanting it.
After you read it you'll be so excited about wanting to start your own projects or just know basics about other breeds. It was my first genetic book and every other book I've read after that has made more sense. Its that useful in my own opinion. Plus its got pretty pictures of all kinds of poultry, rare and domestic.

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#24 2011-08-29 07:58:26

3riverschick
Member
From: Ligonier, in Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2011-08-11
Posts: 64
Website

Re: Genetics study group???

Skylinepoultry wrote:

If you plan on really wanting to know basic genetics this is the book to get. Its very thought out in terms just about anyone can understand. Didn't realize it was this rare to find though. I guess I got lucky getting my hardcopy. I can look around and see if anyone has got it for sale if anyone is really wanting it.
After you read it you'll be so excited about wanting to start your own projects or just know basics about other breeds. It was my first genetic book and every other book I've read after that has made more sense. Its that useful in my own opinion. Plus its got pretty pictures of all kinds of poultry, rare and domestic.

====================================
   Hi   James,
   I emailed Sigrid in the Netherlands about availaibilty of the new softcover " The Genetics of Chicken Colours-The Basics".  Below is her response which just came thru.  I agree with James about this book. Not only is the front half easy to understand, the   2nd half in the back is  chock full of large color photos of all the colors with thier genetic "recipes". This book is perfect for anyone, especially the beginner or someone wanting to work on a color project. Sigrid quotes postage for 2 copies so if two people wanted to go together, postage could be saved.
Best Regards,
Karen
As of 8-28-2011 according to XE currency convertor:
75.00 EUR  = 108.954 USD 
16.15 EUR  = 23.4588 USD
2.00 EUR  = 2.90513 USD 
168.15 EUR  = 244.239 USD 
So basically, if ordering 2 at a time, the price difference between the 1st edition hardcover
and the 2nd printing softcover to your doorstep for one copy has risen about $14.00 USD. Not bad.
Best Regards,
Karen
=============================
Hi Karen,
The softcovers are printed in January since hard cover is too expensive
after the first run was sold out after 2 years. Printing prices raised a
lot therefore there are printed small runs of 50 books a time digitally.
The book is 75 euros, mail costs to the US of two copies 16,15 euro and
the protecting special carton wrap is 2 euros.
This is in total 168,15 euro.

You can pay with paypal: info@tuinvee.nl
Or by bank:
Acc. #: 1279.35.401
Name: Sigrid van Dort Vormgeving
City: Klarenbeek
Country: Holland
Bic: RABONL2U
Iban: NL48RABO 0127935401

I will google on Euskal Oiloa chickens, never heard of that breed :-))

Have a nice day!

kind regards,
Sigrid



> Good Day Sigrid,
> Ik ben op zoek naar informatie over de aanschaf "Genetica van kip
Kleuren-The Basics". Ik heb een hardcover kopiëren en love it! Prachtig
boek! Ik heb een aantal Euskal Oiloa kippen fokker vrienden die nodig
kopieën. Ik lees daar als een softcover versie binnenkort? Heeft u
ofwel
> de hardcover of softcover beschikbaar?? Hoeveel zou het totaal niet met
de
> verzending naar Ligonier, Pennsylvania, USA 15.658 tot 9.226.
> Thanks so much! Ik kijk uit naar uw antwoord.
> Met vriendelijke groet,
> Karen Tewart
> bellscolly@comcast.net
>

Last edited by 3riverschick (2011-08-29 08:14:57)


Karen Tewart
"The present is best served when we remember the past."

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#25 2011-08-29 11:03:00

Young Heritage
Member
From: Gainesville, Georgia
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 157

Re: Genetics study group???

I had emailed the US contact from the website and was told $130 with no more info other than the address to send payment. I will follow up and find out if it is soft or hardback. I want the book and will get it at some point but it just takes $130 away from my chickens. :)


FBCM and Euskal Oiloa

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