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#1 2013-03-15 13:38:29

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

M&K and I have drafted a survey we would like some feedback on. We were thinking late fall of 2013 would be the first time we could ask EO owners to complete it but to ensure as many members as are interested are collecting the information so they can complete the survey we wanted to post a draft of it for discussion now. I was thinking we could use Survey Monkey or something similar to collect survey results in November/December.

Let us know what you think! Be honest: typos, missing questions, confusing questions, too long...

2013 North American Euskal oiloa (Basque) Chicken Survey

In the basque region of Spain where Euskal oiloa (EO) originated, EOs are considered a dual purpose medium weight fowl for production of both meat and eggs. In Spain, these birds are also well-known for their use in ornamental aviculture and their feathers in the production of artificial flies for fishing hooks. Although relatively new to North America, in addition to their productivity and beauty, EOs are becoming more widely recognized as a very friendly and personable poultry breed well suited to many Poultry fancier and breeders needs.

This survey is intended to better understand the North American EO population, the reasons that poultry enthusiasts are choosing to own this breed, and the expectations and aspirations of EO owners. A summary of the survey findings will be posted on the Euskal oiloa chicken forum (EOCF). The intent is to repeat the survey on an annual basis.

1. For what purpose(s) do you own EOs (choose all that apply): 
Meat
Eggs
Sale of Hatching eggs
Sale of Chicks or Birds
Breeding
Showing
Feathers
Pets/Enjoyment
Other (please specify):

2. Choose the answer that best describes your PRIMARY reason for owning EOs:
Meat
Eggs
Sale of Hatching eggs
Sale of Chicks or Birds
Breeding
Showing
Feathers
Pets/Enjoyment

3. What varieties of EOs do you own or are you working towards (choose all that apply):  
Marraduna (barred red columbian)
Gorria (red columbian)
Beltza (black)
Zilarra (white columbian)
Lepasoila (naked neck)
Llodiana (blond)
Mille Fleur Marraduna
Mille Fleur Gorria
White (recessive) 
I am not worried about my EOs being a specific color

4. How many years have you owned EOs:
Less than 1 year
1-2 years
2-3 years
3-4 years
4-5 years
More than 5 years

5. How many more years do you plan to own EOs:
Less than 1 year
1-5 years
More than 5 years

6. How many EOs do you consider part of your 2013 "permanent" flock including both hens/pullets and cockerels/roosters? These would be birds you intend to keep as pets, laying hens or for breeding etc. excluding birds you intend to sell or use for meat production.
10 or less
11-25
26-50
51-100
101+

7. A mean production of 200 dark eggs with an average weight of 61g is expected. Do you monitor your EOs for egg production traits?
Yes
Somewhat
No

8. Due to its medium weight EOs are also intended for meat production, expected to reach a liveweight of 2 kg (4.4 lbs) at 13 weeks of age under farm conditions. Do you monitor your EOs for this trait?
N/A
Yes
Somewhat
No

The next questions may only be applicable to EO owners currently breeding EOs, please choose "N/A" if a question does not apply to your situation. 

9. How many years have you been breeding EOs:
N/A
Less than 1 year
1-2 years
2-3 years
3-4 years
4-5 years
More than 5 years

10. How many more years do you plan to breed EOs?
N/A
Less than 1 year
1-5 years
More than 5 years

11. How did you obtain new EOs in 2013 (choose all that apply):
N/A (I did not add any EOs to my flock in 2013)
Chicks from hatching my own EO eggs
Hatching eggs from someone else
Purchased chicks (1 month old or less)
Purchase of birds (more than 1 month old)

12. How many EOs did you hatch or obtain as chicks in 2013? 
N/A (None)
10 or less
11-25
26-50
51-100
101+

13. The presence of side sprigs is a disqualification for many breeds including EOs. What percent of the EOs you hatched or raised from chicks this year had side sprigs: 
N/A
I did not check
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

14. The presence of feather stubs either on the shank or between the toes is a disqualification for many breeds including EOs. What percent of the EOs you hatched or raised from chicks this year had feather stubs:
N/A
I did not check
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

15. Although crooked toes can be caused by either the environment or genetics the presence of crooked toes is undesirable. What percent of the EOs you hatched or raised from chicks this year had crooked toes:
N/A
I did not check
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

16. Shank color other than yellow is a disqualification for the breed (note that the beak and skin will match the shank color). What percentage of the EOs you hatched or raised from chicks this year had a shank color other than yellow (i.e. white, blue or willow):
N/A
I did not check
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

17. EOs should have red earlobes and presence of white earlobes are a disqualification for the breed. What percentage of the EOs you hatched or raised from chicks this year had white earlobes:
N/A
I did not check
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

18. In the marraduna variety of EO, entirely white or black feathers in the tail or entirely white feathers in the wing are considered a disqualification. Of the marraduna EO cockerels you raised this year and have kept for 8 months or more, what percent had entirely white or black feathers in the tail or white feathers in the wing?
N/A
I did not check
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

19. Standard weights for the breed are: Cockerel.....6.5 lbs. Any bird that deviates more than 20% either up or down from the weight listed for its breed, sex and age should be disqualified. What percent of the EO cockerels you hatched or obtained as chicks this year would not attain a weight between 5.2 and 7.8 lbs prior to 1 year of age:
N/A
I did not check
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

20. Standard weights for the breed are: Pullet.........4.5 lbs. Any bird that deviates more than 20% either up or down from the weight listed for its breed, sex and age should be disqualified. What percent of the EO pullets you hatched or obtained as chicks this year would not be able to attain a weight between 3.6 and 5.4 lbs prior to 1 year of age:
N/A
I did not check
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

21. There are a variety of characteristics both general (see pages 32-34 of the 2010 America  Poultry Association Standard of Perfection) and specific to EOs (http://forums.euskaloiloas.com/viewtopic.php?id=558) that would warrant disqualification of an EO at a show. What percent of the EOs you hatched or obtained as chicks this year would you estimate would be disqualified for one or more reasons:
N/A
I did not check
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

22. The current draft North American SOP for marraduna EOs was translated from Spanish and states that the eye color should be brown. The eye color may be better described as "chestnut" when translation from Spanish to English. What eye color would best describe the majority of your EOs eyes?
N/A or I did not check
Brown
Chestnut
Other (please specify):

23. The current draft North American SOP, a direct translation of the Spanish SOP, states that the comb should have 5 to 7 points. A specific number of points must be specified in a North American SOP. What number of points on the comb should the North American SOP specify?
N/A or I have no preference
5
6
7
Other (Please Specify):

24. What percent of the EOs you hatched or obtained as chicks in 2013 would be reasonably true to type, color, size and comb according to the draft North American SOP for marraduna EOs?
N/A
I did not check
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

25. How many of the 2013 EOs you hatched or obtained as chicks do you intend to use for breeding? 
N/A
None
10% or less
11-25%
26-50%
51-75%
76% or more

26. How many breeding quality EO hens and pullets will remain in your flock over winter:
N/A (None)
1-5
6-10
11-20
21-50
51+

27. How many breeding quality EO cockerels and roosters will remain in your flock over winter:
N/A (None)
1
2
3-5
5+

28. For a new breed or variety to be recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) the following criteria must be met:
- "Affidavits ... from not less than five breeders stating they have bred the breed or variety for not less than five years and that it produces not less than 50% of all specimens reasonably true to type, color, size and comb"
- "Certificates showing two or more specimens have been exhibited in each class of cocks, hens, cockerels and pullets in each of the two preceding years at a show officiated by a licensed APA judge. The Secretary shall contact the judge for his or her confidential opinion of the quality and uniformity"
- "a qualifying meet at a designated prominent show to be judged by a licensed APA judge...not less than fifty (50) specimens exhibited by at least five exhibitors in call classes of cock, hen, cockerel, and pullet" 
Five years or more from now, would you be willing participate in the process of having EOs recognized by the APA as one of the five required breeders and exhibitors?
N/A
No
Yes
Maybe but I am not sure at this time

Without seeking further permission from you, the information below will only be made available to Administrators and Moderators of EOCF. If you do not wish to disclose some or any of the information requested below please leave it blank:
First and Last Name:
Farm or Business Name (if applicable):
Mailing Address:
E-mail Address:
Phone Number:
EOCF Forum Username (if applicable):

Thank you for taking the time to complete the survey. Your comments and suggestions are welcome, please state them below:


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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2013-03-15 13:38:29

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#2 2013-03-15 14:02:25

gubi
Member
From: Walton
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 1344
Website

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

There are a lot of specific questions which are important to some breeders but not so much for others.  Maybe group the standard questions and the production questions and write: skip this part if not breeding for production/standard.  Otherwise you will loose people and they wont even bother answering any questions.  Also some of the %iges could be changed.  Crooked toes for example 0%, 5%, 10%, 25% or higher.  It is highly unlikely that you would get an even higher percentage. 
I think you covered it very well


Herd of Brown Swiss, a few sheep, red cuckoo basque, Silverspangled Appenzeller Spitzhauben, ameraucanas(EE), Welsummer, broodie silkies and a few more heritage hens

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#3 2013-03-15 14:08:58

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Excellent suggestion Gubi!  Thank you for your input!


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#4 2013-03-15 14:13:42

dahlisgrams
Member
From: NY
Registered: 2012-08-06
Posts: 267

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Comprehensive and well thought out. Excellent. =D

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#5 2013-03-15 14:48:03

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Good suggestions gubi, thanks.

With the lower % ranges, that should apply to a few questions: crooked toes, side sprigs, feather stubs, shank color, earlob color, and perhaps the standard weights for cockerels and pullets. How about these ranges:
N/A
I did not check
None
1-5%
6-10%
11-15%
16-25%
26-50%
Over 50%

Over a few years these finer ranges at the low end may allow us to see more of a trend. I was just worried if we make the ranges too fine less people will respond because not everyone have tracked things that closely.

And I think questions 9 to 25 are all for breeders only, so non breeders should skip to question 26. But I had a method to the order of questions, I wanted people to read through 9 to 25 before answering the last few questions because I think, based on what they learn reading those questions, it may change some people's response to the last few questions if that makes sense?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#6 2013-03-15 21:45:49

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Looks good. The only thing I would change is removing "such and such is a disqualification". It will bias your question and lead to lower results.

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#7 2013-03-15 23:47:54

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Susan wrote:

Looks good. The only thing I would change is removing "such and such is a disqualification". It will bias your question and lead to lower results.

Well that's just the opposite of what you want in the pens! :P

:excited:

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#8 2013-03-15 23:54:48

Maggiesdad
Moderator
From: Louisa County, Virginia
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 1980

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

I see some typos PG - want me to just fix them, or point them out?

I think the meat of it is good. :thumbs:

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#9 2013-03-16 00:30:19

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Please fix the typos if you are willing MD, thanks!

Susan I am trying to educate at the same time as we get info we might be able to use towards getting EOs recognized by the APA. My first reaction is to say if people choose to taylor their answer on the survey because something is a DQ then so be it I guess :huh: But obviously I would hope people will be honest and the results for each individual won't be reported on individually, only as part of a summary. Do you really think the risk of bias is significant just by pointing out something is a DQ?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#10 2013-03-16 00:46:08

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Great feedback so far, thanks everyone!


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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#11 2013-03-16 01:34:16

Susan
Administrator
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-28
Posts: 2540

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

I do. I think education and getting good results on a survey can be quite different. But if you all want to leave it in, I am fine with it. It was just my 2cents. Guess I have been working on statistics too much lately :)

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#12 2013-03-16 02:06:57

Martin Grove Farm
Administrator
From: Waterloo, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-08-04
Posts: 510

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

I hope I don't hurt any feelings.  I think the survey is too long.  It's a lot of time to commit to answer in one session.  Perhaps if you broke it down into 2 parts, one for breeders and one for keepers.  Also I think you would get a more honest answer if you did not ask for the member name.  Not too many are comfortable enough to admit that their birds are substandard.


“Expecting life to treat you well just because you’re a good person is like expecting an angry bull not to charge you because you’re a vegetarian.”      Unknown

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#13 2013-03-16 02:18:15

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

All feedback is welcome MGF so thanks for your comments. Which questions would you put in one survey vs. the other if you could specify?

In a week or so once we have given a fair chance for most members to comment we will need to decide how to go forward with this. As each person will have a different opinion I'm not sure what the best way to do that is?

For now please keep the suggestions, corrections and comments coming!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#14 2013-03-16 02:25:33

Martin Grove Farm
Administrator
From: Waterloo, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-08-04
Posts: 510

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Some of the questions are geared towards breeding and some are more towards hobby.  I think it would be best if the serious breeders answered the breeding questions and the hobbyists answered the chicken keeping questions.  Some of the same questions may be on both surveys but it could shorten the time that people had to spend.  OR  Keep it as it is but have part one and part 2.  Just divide it into 2 equal sections,  They can answer one part one day and the other part when they have more time.   I find that if there are too many questions, people may become disinterested and not answer at all.


“Expecting life to treat you well just because you’re a good person is like expecting an angry bull not to charge you because you’re a vegetarian.”      Unknown

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#15 2013-03-16 02:31:48

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

I think I see what you mean although it will likely take some time to divide it into two. One survey as a general EO owner census. One survey for breeders. Point taken and understood :thumbs:


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#16 2013-03-16 03:38:44

sarbee42
Member
From: Morrisburg, Ontario
Registered: 2013-03-09
Posts: 27

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Questions #19 & 20. They state a specific weight for both genders but do not specify whether or not this is live weight or dressed weight. Some people new to the hobby might get a bit confused.
Other than that, I think its a great survey! :thumbsup:

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#17 2013-03-16 13:33:52

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Alive sarbee42! We can certainly fix that so it's clearer. Thanks!


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#18 2013-03-16 14:19:44

yardbirds
Member
From: just north of Yorkton, Sk.
Registered: 2012-07-09
Posts: 334

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

I think you both did a great job with this and I don't think it is too long.  For the purpose of having EO's recognized by the APA I think all of the questions are relevant and for the survey to be taken seriously you have done an excellent job.  :thumbs:  Typos and spelling errors are easily corrected.  :goodthread: and :thanks:


urban flock consisting two EOs thx Prairie Chick, one True Blue Ameraucana, and two Welsummers, thx Dan Smith and a gorgeous Easter Egger Hen, thx Flicker Chick. and 2 GLW pullets, 1 GLW cockerel, 1 SLW cockerel, 1 true blue Ameraucana pullet, and 4 EE pullets and 1 Cream Brabanter pullet, Thx to FRF, Anneke, and Fallyn.

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#19 2013-03-16 14:27:55

NaturesPace
Member
From: Augusta county VA, USA
Registered: 2011-12-20
Posts: 915
Website

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Looks good.
Question 7 you ask about tracking egg production, but don't ask how many they are getting if they do track. Also you say "dark" eggs. I don't think of EO eggs as dark. They are more medium to light brown to me.


More pictures and videos of chicks. www.outoforderacres.com

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#20 2013-03-16 17:14:32

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Good point NP. I can change dark to brown in regards to egg color. I think that was a quote straight from one of the Spanish articles translated to English.

As for productivity of eggs production, there would be 2 components. Average weight per egg and average eggs per year so we would need to add 2 questions. Both would need a specific time on them, for example at a certain age or over a certain age range all members would need to check so we are comparing apples to apples.

I some respects question 8 is the same, we would need to ask what the average weight is at 13 weeks for those that do monitor this trait.

I left out asking these three questions we would need to on productivity (ave egg weight, ave eggs per year, and ave weight at 13 weeks) for two resons. First, productivity traits are not something the APA will ask about so they are not important for that purpose although obviously for some EO keepers these are very important traits. The second reason, I wasn't sure how many people would actually be able to provide these numbers or how to be specific enough on how the data should be collected.

Do you think these three questions should be added? And if yes would you like to make a first attempt at writing up the questions and a list of responses?

One option would be, for example:
Of your EO hens (1 year and older) on average do eggs weight.
A) Close to an average of 61g
B) less than an average of 61g
C) more than an average of 61g

But what range around 61g on average would be acceptable? We would need to specify.


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#21 2013-03-16 18:52:40

NaturesPace
Member
From: Augusta county VA, USA
Registered: 2011-12-20
Posts: 915
Website

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

What about having the yes answer ask how many and how old?
Example: Yes, _______\year, ______age.


More pictures and videos of chicks. www.outoforderacres.com

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#22 2013-03-16 20:27:40

Flat Rock Farm
Member
From: Branchton, Ontario Canada
Registered: 2011-07-03
Posts: 3359

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Martin Grove Farm wrote:

Some of the questions are geared towards breeding and some are more towards hobby.  I think it would be best if the serious breeders answered the breeding questions and the hobbyists answered the chicken keeping questions.  Some of the same questions may be on both surveys but it could shorten the time that people had to spend.  OR  Keep it as it is but have part one and part 2.  Just divide it into 2 equal sections,  They can answer one part one day and the other part when they have more time.   I find that if there are too many questions, people may become disinterested and not answer at all.

I was thinking the same as MG in regarding the length of the survey as well.   Sorry it felt like I was getting ready for a test :chairhide:  I also agree it should be geared one survey towards the hobby and the second to the breeder.  Guess I am one who is kind of in between both hobbyist and breeder :huh:

Great job on the survey though, it is a good idea :thumbs:

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#23 2013-03-16 22:38:56

poplar girl
Administrator
From: Athabasca, AB, Canada
Registered: 2011-06-30
Posts: 3159

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

NaturesPace wrote:

What about having the yes answer ask how many and how old?
Example: Yes, _______\year, ______age.

I'm not sure I understand NP :oops: Could you fill in the blanks with example answers for each question?


Raising red cuckoo (marraduna) Euskal Oiloak and self blue (lavender) & black Belgian Bearded d'Uccles.

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#24 2013-03-16 22:53:07

NaturesPace
Member
From: Augusta county VA, USA
Registered: 2011-12-20
Posts: 915
Website

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

poplar girl wrote:

NaturesPace wrote:

What about having the yes answer ask how many and how old?
Example: Yes, _______\year, ______age.

I'm not sure I understand NP :oops: Could you fill in the blanks with example answers for each question?

Yes, _180_/year, __1years old_age


More pictures and videos of chicks. www.outoforderacres.com

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#25 2013-03-17 01:59:46

Micah and Kiah
Member
From: West Grey
Registered: 2012-04-20
Posts: 839

Re: Draft EO Survey for Member Comments

Thanks so much yardbirds!  We need to decide which spelling to go with, US or Canadian!   :funny:  As long as the words are spelled correctly in one of our countries we are doing ok. 

Everyone is offering great ideas!  Thank you SO much!

yardbirds wrote:

I think you both did a great job with this and I don't think it is too long.  For the purpose of having EO's recognized by the APA I think all of the questions are relevant and for the survey to be taken seriously you have done an excellent job.  :thumbs:  Typos and spelling errors are easily corrected.  :goodthread: and :thanks:


All the best,

Kiah and Micah

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